Help Me Make An O.P. 25th Level Character


Advice


Exactly what the title says, I'm playing in a game soon where in almost every player is amazing at making incredibly powerful characters, and I'm, well... not. So I need a hand. I don't mind what your ideas are, anything helpful is welcome. The exact character creation rules are roughly as follows; Any race (Including and especially NPC races) is allowed, Any Template is allowed and any and all Templates can be stacked with all others - provided that no prerequisites are broken, or other such restrictions dependant upon unique situations. I.E. - "A Mortal Usher cannot be Undead"

A few of the players have told me about their characters in advance and hit point-wise, we're looking at the 700-1000+ range, most, if not all, of their ability scores are 60 or above and a lot of them are immune to... well, a lot of stuff. So, given all of that...

Got Any Ideas?


How are they getting ability scores ~60 at level 25? How many templates are players allowed to take?

You still only get six stat bumps in 25 levels. You can get a +6 Enhancement bonus from a belt/headband. A +5 Inherent bonus from Wish/Manuals. I don't see 60 happening without, I actually don't know, I don't see 60 happening in PF1... even given 25 levels.

25 levels of Barbarian, a D12 hit dice, is only 300HP taking the maximum at each level. Add 25 for Toughness. And 25 for FCB. That's 350.

We still have 650 unaccounted for HP. Dividing 650 by 25, in theory, SHOULD give you the Constitution modifier... but 650/25=26... what is the Constitution score that has a modifier of +26?

None of this makes sense.

Run away while you still can...


VoodistMonk wrote:
How are they getting ability scores ~60 at level 25? How many templates are players allowed to take?

I'm guessing that they're treating the CR adjustments from the templates as levels, giving you +5 CR to add in templates if you still want to hit level 20 in a class. That, or they're literally just stacking every single template they can find on a character.

VoodistMonk wrote:
what is the Constitution score that has a modifier of +26?

Easy to remember, just double the ability mod and add 10.


VoodistMonk wrote:

How are they getting ability scores ~60 at level 25? How many templates are players allowed to take?

You still only get six stat bumps in 25 levels. You can get a +6 Enhancement bonus from a belt/headband. A +5 Inherent bonus from Wish/Manuals. I don't see 60 happening without, I actually don't know, I don't see 60 happening in PF1... even given 25 levels.

25 levels of Barbarian, a D12 hit dice, is only 300HP taking the maximum at each level. Add 25 for Toughness. And 25 for FCB. That's 350.

We still have 650 unaccounted for HP. Dividing 650 by 25, in theory, SHOULD give you the Constitution modifier... but 650/25=26... what is the Constitution score that has a modifier of +26?

None of this makes sense.

Run away while you still can...

Players are allowed to take as many templates as they want, provided that the rules allow it, I.E. they cannot have both the Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend Templates because the alignment requirements would not allow it.

As for the Ability Scores, most characters are playing NPC Races which have racial hit die, for example, i know of one player whom is playing a lesser lord of a portion of hell, this is the sort of level that we're playing at. The DM's attitude for this game is essentially "If it breaks the game, use it to tear the game a sunder" Its fun, as is the surplus PvP, as this is something which I rarely get to indulge in, but as stated before, I'm not very good at making heavily broken characters like they are, hence, my bid for advice. I hope that helped you understand.


Wonderstell wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:
How are they getting ability scores ~60 at level 25? How many templates are players allowed to take?

I'm guessing that they're treating the CR adjustments from the templates as levels, giving you +5 CR to add in templates if you still want to hit level 20 in a class. That, or they're literally just stacking every single template they can find on a character.

VoodistMonk wrote:
what is the Constitution score that has a modifier of +26?
Easy to remember, just double the ability mod and add 10.

Pretty much just the latter, they're going with every template they can find, as far as i can tell.


Wow. I don't know where to start.

Lesser lords of Hell are possible for play? So you can literally play as anything in the game?

You can start as a lesser lord of Hell, AND you get 25 class levels?!

As many templates as you want, so long as they don't contradict each other? Including 3rd party templates?

What is the purpose of this game/campaign?

Hit points are completely arbitrary by this point, everything in the game is a joke to you unless it is equally exaggerated to the moon and back.

I swing my napkin for 666 damage and kill both Ancient Black Dragons...

Is it just PvP? Just an arena of stupidly jacked monsters hitting each other hard enough to sunder planets? Is that considered fun?

The more I think about this, the less it makes sense to me.


VoodistMonk wrote:

Wow. I don't know where to start.

Lesser lords of Hell are possible for play? So you can literally play as anything in the game?

You can start as a lesser lord of Hell, AND you get 25 class levels?!

As many templates as you want, so long as they don't contradict each other? Including 3rd party templates?

What is the purpose of this game/campaign?

Hit points are completely arbitrary by this point, everything in the game is a joke to you unless it is equally exaggerated to the moon and back.

I swing my napkin for 666 damage and kill both Ancient Black Dragons...

Is it just PvP? Just an arena of stupidly jacked monsters hitting each other hard enough to sunder planets? Is that considered fun?

The more I think about this, the less it makes sense to me.

We're running through a modified version of the Tomb of Horrors, with some home-brew stuff thrown in. It's not completely PvP, but that is certainly an aspect. The campaign takes place upon a Multiversal and Multi-planar scale, with the characters involved being drawn from every dark corner of every universe, to battle a threat to all creation, but in order to do this, we require an artefact from the tomb, hence the idea behind the campaign. So, yes, every enemy we face is going to be equally as ridiculous as we are, if not, then likely significantly more so. We may be Pseudo-Demi-gods, but if we're the equivalent of 5th level characters, then we're likely going to be fighting 20th level characters, if that analogy makes any sense.


An entire campaign with the baseline of CR20+ is difficult for me to conceptualize.

It's just a battle of math, with numbers that don't make sense in the general context of the game.

Everyone has 500+HP, 50+AC, can't fail a save, has pocket change to pay for Resurrection so death is barely an inconvenience IF it is even possible, does 250+DMG every round...

This doesn't sound fun, it sounds extensively exhausting.


VoodistMonk wrote:

An entire campaign with the baseline of CR20+ is difficult for me to conceptualize.

It's just a battle of math, with numbers that don't make sense in the general context of the game.

Everyone has 500+HP, 50+AC, can't fail a save, has pocket change to pay for Resurrection so death is barely an inconvenience IF it is even possible, does 250+DMG every round...

This doesn't sound fun, it sounds extensively exhausting.

I believe that the fun will be found in the absurdity of it all, in the madness that will likely ensue due to the above stated maths. And when it comes to saves and damage output and the like, the DM has already mentioned similar things about that, and has ensured us that it will indeed be a challenge and that he will be home brewing his own monsters as well as modifying many incredibly powerful existing creatures, especially considering the fact that he would like to play this game up to 40th level. But yes, when it comes to the maths, the odds shall most definitely not, be in our favour


I had a friend that took it upon himself to explain to me the entirety of DragonBall into DragonBall Z into DragonBall GT or whatever... all in one night, in one sitting, without so much as a bathroom break for either of us. And I patiently listened to him.

As he regaled me with the every detail of an anime I cared nothing about, I found myself interrupting him to ask about power levels, or whatever the metric of strength is called in DragonBall. It was a big deal when Goku broke 1,000 the first time, but a few hours of talking later and Goku is at 1,000,000... and it's like numbers don't mean anything anymore. He was already impossibly strong at 1,000... now he is 1,000 TIMES as strong as he was when he was impossibly strong?

It's like, cool, so these two 1,000,000 power level characters are fighting, right? Even if Player B is strong enough to survive an attack from Player A... the crust of the planet they are fighting on collapses due to the impact, the mantle is exposed to the atmosphere in a violent explosion, the core of the planet stops turning, gravity fails, the magnetic shield disappears, and we all burn in solar radiation as the planet crumbles to pieces...

Nothing makes sense. The argument is brought up in the movie Spinal Tap... why not just make 10 louder? Because this one goes to 11!

It seems that you could have the same level of fun and challenge playing within the "normal" 1-20 level gameplay... you even said you are going to be like level 5 characters playing in a level 20 dungeon... why not just do that? The game is already set up for it.

Pathfinder pretty much tops out at Achaekek, right? CR30. He has a +34 BAB, with an attack bonus north of 40. He happens to only have a handful of natural attacks, but with manufactured weapons that's at least seven attacks per round. I literally don't want to sit at the table where everyone is attacking over half a dozen times. People with anything that gives extra attacks (TWF, Flurry, Rapid Shot, etc) already take a tremendous amount of time every round with half that number of attacks.

The BEST thing about this is that it favors martials, for once. Because even if you are level 52, you only get 9th level spells. There's no way to continue past that without reinventing, well, everything.


9th level spells are still the superior option to not getting them. You definitely still want to be a caster of some kind. The exception to this is Aegis, who gets access to pretty much every 3rd party system and therefore has surprisingly decent spellcasting that naturally scales into epic (despite being Full BAB). Of course, that requires access to 3rd party, so not sure how much help he'll be for you.

At any rate, Aegis or no, 9th level spells are still the height of power in this game. Even an Aegis is no match for a full spellcaster who knows what they're doing.


An Infinite Oblivion wrote:

Exactly what the title says, I'm playing in a game soon where in almost every player is amazing at making incredibly powerful characters, and I'm, well... not. So I need a hand. I don't mind what your ideas are, anything helpful is welcome. The exact character creation rules are roughly as follows; Any race (Including and especially NPC races) is allowed, Any Template is allowed and any and all Templates can be stacked with all others - provided that no prerequisites are broken, or other such restrictions dependant upon unique situations. I.E. - "A Mortal Usher cannot be Undead"

A few of the players have told me about their characters in advance and hit point-wise, we're looking at the 700-1000+ range, most, if not all, of their ability scores are 60 or above and a lot of them are immune to... well, a lot of stuff. So, given all of that...

Got Any Ideas?

Your question is too open, if you at least give a basic concept then let the group mind work out the details I suspect you will get better results. I would suggest pick your favorite 9th level caster, start with enough levels to get 9th level spells and then start stacking racial HD and templates that enhance that class. Then bring the basic idea here for refinement.

How much gold do the characters get to spend and can you make your own magic items at 1/2 price?

As a side note, I played in a similar type game a long, long time ago. It wasn't all that fun. However, it was a pickup game with people I didn't know so I suspect the social aspect of doing this with people you know will make your experience different.


VoodistMonk wrote:

I had a friend that took it upon himself to explain to me the entirety of DragonBall into DragonBall Z into DragonBall GT or whatever... all in one night, in one sitting, without so much as a bathroom break for either of us. And I patiently listened to him.

As he regaled me with the every detail of an anime I cared nothing about, I found myself interrupting him to ask about power levels, or whatever the metric of strength is called in DragonBall. It was a big deal when Goku broke 1,000 the first time, but a few hours of talking later and Goku is at 1,000,000... and it's like numbers don't mean anything anymore. He was already impossibly strong at 1,000... now he is 1,000 TIMES as strong as he was when he was impossibly strong?

It's like, cool, so these two 1,000,000 power level characters are fighting, right? Even if Player B is strong enough to survive an attack from Player A... the crust of the planet they are fighting on collapses due to the impact, the mantle is exposed to the atmosphere in a violent explosion, the core of the planet stops turning, gravity fails, the magnetic shield disappears, and we all burn in solar radiation as the planet crumbles to pieces...

Nothing makes sense. The argument is brought up in the movie Spinal Tap... why not just make 10 louder? Because this one goes to 11!

It seems that you could have the same level of fun and challenge playing within the "normal" 1-20 level gameplay... you even said you are going to be like level 5 characters playing in a level 20 dungeon... why not just do that? The game is already set up for it.

Pathfinder pretty much tops out at Achaekek, right? CR30. He has a +34 BAB, with an attack bonus north of 40. He happens to only have a handful of natural attacks, but with manufactured weapons that's at least seven attacks per round. I literally don't want to sit at the table where everyone is attacking over half a dozen times. People with anything that gives extra attacks (TWF, Flurry, Rapid Shot, etc) already take a tremendous amount of...

I'm sure that we could have this debate for a very long time, and i'll be honest, a part of me kind of wants to, but at the end of the day we all want to play in a 25th level game, because, well... why not? it sounds fun to us, so we're going to do it, although i do appreciate your concern. At the end of the day, whatever happens is going to be insanely game breaking anyway, and if we blow up a few planets, then that's awesome!If you have any advice on a build that i should play, then please let me know, although other than that, despite your advice, i'm going to play in this game. Thanks


Valandil Ancalime wrote:
An Infinite Oblivion wrote:

Exactly what the title says, I'm playing in a game soon where in almost every player is amazing at making incredibly powerful characters, and I'm, well... not. So I need a hand. I don't mind what your ideas are, anything helpful is welcome. The exact character creation rules are roughly as follows; Any race (Including and especially NPC races) is allowed, Any Template is allowed and any and all Templates can be stacked with all others - provided that no prerequisites are broken, or other such restrictions dependant upon unique situations. I.E. - "A Mortal Usher cannot be Undead"

A few of the players have told me about their characters in advance and hit point-wise, we're looking at the 700-1000+ range, most, if not all, of their ability scores are 60 or above and a lot of them are immune to... well, a lot of stuff. So, given all of that...

Got Any Ideas?

Your question is too open, if you at least give a basic concept then let the group mind work out the details I suspect you will get better results. I would suggest pick your favorite 9th level caster, start with enough levels to get 9th level spells and then start stacking racial HD and templates that enhance that class. Then bring the basic idea here for refinement.

How much gold do the characters get to spend and can you make your own magic items at 1/2 price?

As a side note, I played in a similar type game a long, long time ago. It wasn't all that fun. However, it was a pickup game with people I didn't know so I suspect the social aspect of doing this with people you know will make your experience different.

Fair Point. I Suppose a Druid could be quite interesting, if anybody has any ideas for that, although i'm also interested in the psychic in case anybody has any ideas for that. As for Gold amount, 800,000, and yes, crafting for half of the cost is allowed. I Suppose one of the things that i need the help with the most is the race and templates as i am not very experienced with powerful NPC races and Templates.

Thanks


The thing I have to wonder is do you actually mean by OP?

Do you mean a character that literally breaks the game? or just something that's very powerful?

A character doesn't need to be level 25 in order to be OP. Such characters likely wouldn't even be much fun for everyone else.

Oh, the monster has 10 billion hp? that's fine I walk up to it and... well it dies. next?

There have been builds on the forums like this. I consider them OP because they break the game to the point of it not being fun any more. Since they make some core aspect of the game meaningless. On the other hand. There are builds that are simply very powerful (builds that I'm sure some DMs would consider OP) and those could be fun to play.

In any case it would be good to have some guidelines. What type of character do you want to play?

My character concept notebook is almost 200 pages long now and contains 157 builds (just counted out of curiosity). The thing is, there are still some classes I've never even looked at because they just don't interest me. I only mention this to give you an idea of just how broad your question really is.

What do YOU want to do during combat?
cast spells?
command minions?
shoot a bow?
dual wield?
Club things with a giant weapon?
Use unarmed attacks?
use natural weapons?
Heal people?

Once you give an answer to that question it will be much easier to give you something like what you're looking for. Also, how much wealth do you get to start with? Or is it assumed that you can simply have any and/all magic items/artifacts you want?

edit: It looks like you responded before I finished making my post. 800,000gp and you're thinking a druid. Cool. That um.... oddly still doesn't answer the question. Druids can be quite versatile and I have a druid build for each of the things I listed above(except perhaps shooting a bow)


LordKailas wrote:

The thing I have to wonder is do you actually mean by OP?

Do you mean a character that literally breaks the game? or just something that's very powerful?

A character doesn't need to be level 25 in order to be OP. Such characters likely wouldn't even be much fun for everyone else.

Oh, the monster has 10 billion hp? that's fine I walk up to it and... well it dies. next?

There have been builds on the forums like this. I consider them OP because they break the game to the point of it not being fun any more. Since they make some core aspect of the game meaningless. On the other hand. There are builds that are simply very powerful and those could be fun to play.

In any case it would be good to have some guidelines. What type of character do you want to play?

My character concept notebook is almost 200 pages long now and contains 157 builds (just counted out of curiosity). The thing is, there are still some classes I've never even looked at because they just don't interest me. I only mention this to give you an idea of just how broad your question really is.

What do YOU want to do during combat?
cast spells?
command minions?
shoot a bow?
dual wield?
Club things with a giant weapon?
Use unarmed attacks?
use natural weapons?
Heal people?

Once you give an answer to that question it will be much easier to give you something like what you're looking for. Also, how much wealth do you get to start with? Or is it assumed that you can simply have any and/all magic items/artifacts you want?

I see your point, and i suppose i want the latter option, a very powerful character. the only reason i ask for an O.P. build is because of the surplus of PvP that goes on in our regular games, and considering the difference in power levels between mine and their characters in our usual games, i thought id seek help as to not be completely useless in combat again.

What do I want to do? Hmm... well casting spells is fun, but i would also like to be competent in combat, how i do that combat i don't mind, be it in melee dual wielding or using a bow, i'm not too fussed.

800,000 Gold Pieces, that's our starting budget.

And whilst i'm open to playing any class, i'm a fan of Druids and i Quite like the Psychic.


At high levels a psychic can do some absurd things. The spells glimpse of the akashic, divide mind and akashic form are notable and particular to that class. Using time stop to buff to the nines then jumping into a fight is doable.


I'd go with something simple and join the game to look how the actual playstyle is like. Stories about it only tell you that much, experiencing it is a different beast. Simple also means you get powers you can use from the beginning and have fun with, instead of spending multiple sessions on a learning curve.

Could be as (relatively) simple as a "human" fighter 20 (amazing crits! or go mobile fighter for, well, mobility) with advanced, id mutant, mutant and half-dragon templates. IMO racial HD don't help much (especially in a mix with class HD and templates) and most templates come with serious drawbacks (or too little benefit to justify their +x CR).


Well, sadly psychic is one of those classes that hasn't strongly interested me so I don't think I can provide much aide in that regard.

When it comes to druids that are competent in melee I do have the following. The nice thing about being a druid is that you can do any of these builds and you also get to still be a 9th level caster.

Tentacled Horror (Monk/Druid)

Spoiler:

Key concepts: A druid that can pounce and get many attacks
Alignment: LN
Class: Monk(1), Druid(X)
Archetypes: Kraken Caller(Druid), Master of Many Styles(Monk)
Nature Bond: Plains Domain
Feats: Jabbing Style(1st), Weapon Focus[tentacle](3rd), Feral Combat Training(5th), Improved Natural Attack[tentacle](7th)
Suggested Feats: Monastic Legacy
Suggested Gear: 2 Beaststrike Clubs, Amulet of Mighty Fists (Cruel, spell storing), Wisdom Headband, Dragonhide Breastplate(Spellstoring), Meditation Crystal, Cracked Pale Green Prism, Helm of the Mammoth Lord
Key Features: Prep rounds:
Cast Liveoak to have a Treant minion (CR 8)
Cast Frigid Touch into the Spell Storing Armor to shut down other natural attackers for 1 round
Cast Frostbite into Spell Storing Amulet
Cast Greater Magic Fang to give all Natural Attacks a +1 for 12 hours
Cast Hunter's Blessing for +2 to pretty much everything in the Terrain and vs the creature type you suspect you will face for 12 hours

Use Wildshape to grow 6 tentacles, for a total of 8 with 2 Beaststrike Clubs for 120 minutes.
Cast Resinous Skin for DR 5/Piercing and chance to disarm Melee weapon using opponents for 120 minutes
Cast Stone Skin for DR 10/Adamantine for 120 minutes
Cast Barkskin for +5 natural armor for 120 minutes
Cast Echolocation for Blindsight 40' for 120 minutes
Cast Freedom of Movement for 120 minutes
Cast Greensight to see through thick plant matter if the encounter is in a forest for 120 minutes
Cast Heightened Awareness to add +4 to initiative check for 120 minutes
Cast 2 Protection from Energy's picking Cold and Fire(or whatever else if you have knowledge of the fight, Cold is important because Protection grants Immunity, meaning Frigid Touch will not stagger, and fire is common)

Cast Bone Fists for +1 bonus to natural armor and +2 damage for 12 minutes
Cast Chameleon Stride (domain, 20% miss chance) for 12 minutes
Cast Fickle Winds to shut down Archers for 12 minutes
Cast Strong Jaw to bring the tentacles up to 2d6 for 12 minutes
Cast Bristle to convert up to 4 natural armor into damage for 12 minutes
Cast Antilife Shell to hedge out non-reach enemy melee fighters for 12 minutes

Cast Haste(from domain) for 12 rounds
Cast Siphon Might on the Horse granting yourself an enhancement bonus to Str of 1d6+5 (going with an average of 3, so +8) for 12 rounds
Cast Vengeful Comets to attempt to counter spellcasters for 12 rounds
Cast Lockjaw to add grab to one of your attacks for 12 rounds.
Cast Frostbite to add 1d6+12 nonlethal cold damage and Fatigue to the next 12 natural attacks.

Tentacles are secondary natural attacks, but if you only have 1 natural attack type, it is considered a primary attack.


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Brutal Goliath (Fighter/Druid)
Spoiler:

Key concepts: A druid that can shape change into a troll in order to wade into combat
Trait: Giant-blooded
Race: Human or Half-elf or Tiefling or Half-Orc
Racial Trait: Heart of the Fey and Focused Study or Military Tradition(Human), Ancestral Arms or adaptability (Half-elf), Variant Option 16(Tiefling), Orc Atavism or [Shaman’s Apprentice & Toothy](Half-Orc)
Class: Fighter (1), Druid(4), Barbarian(2), Druid(X)
Archetypes: Titan Fighter – Fighter / Druid – Goliath Druid
Domain: Rage
Rage Power: Accurate Stance(UC) or Surprise Accuracy or Beast Totem Lesser, Beast Totem & Beast Totem Greater
Eldritch Heritage Bloodline: Abyssal
Feat Tree +6 CON: Skill Focus (1st), Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Butchering Axe](1st), Power Attack(3rd), Shaping Focus(5th), Vital Strike(7th), Eldritch Heritage(9th), Improved Eldritch Heritage (11th), Furious Finish(13th)
Feat Tree Pounce: Racial Heritage[Ogre](1st), Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Butchering Axe](1st), Power Attack(3rd), Shaping Focus(5th), Vital Strike(7th), Raging Brute(9th), Extra Rage Power(11th), Furious Finish(13th)
Feat Tree Pounce & +6 CON: Skill Focus (1st), Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Butchering Axe](1st), Racial Heritage[Ogre](3rd), Shaping Focus(5th), Raging Brute (7th), Eldritch Heritage(9th), Extra Rage Power(11th), Improved Eldritch Heritage (11th)
Suggested Feats: Die Hard, Deathless Initiate, Cleave, Raging Brute, Cleaving Finish,
Suggested Gear: Glove of Storing, Oversized Shrinking Growing Butchering Axe (Furious, Impact, Vicious or Furyborn), Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid (Butchering Axe), Irongrip Gauntlets, Cord of Stubborn Resolve, Pauldrons of the Juggernaut, Amulet of the Blooded
Key Features: • Base Damage for the Oversized Butchering Axe is 4d6
• Weapon is 2-handed so you get 1-1/2 Str +3 per -1 via power attack
• With Enlarge person damage then becomes 6d6
• With Impact damage becomes 8d6
• With vital strike damage then becomes 16d6
• At 3rd Level (assuming nat 20 str & E person) Dmg = 6d6+12 (33 avg dmg)
• At 13th Level you can assume the form of a troll gaining regeneration & rend
• At 15th level you can assume the form of a huge giant (24d6 butchering axe)
• At 19th level( (assuming nat 30 str & wildshape & rage) Base Dmg = 24d6+40 (Avg 124/184 max)
• Growing can increase the size again, but only if the weapon is already huge and only for 10 min. per day

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Brutal Body Bludgeoner (Fighter/Rogue/Druid/Barbarian)
Spoiler:

Key concepts: A druid that can shape change into a giant and wield enemies as weapons
Trait: Surprise Weapon
Race: Human
Racial Trait: Heart of the Fey
Class: Fighter(1), Rogue(1), Druid(9),Barbarian(2), Druid(X)
Archetypes: Goliath Druid(Druid), Makeshift Scrapper(Rogue), Unarmed Fighter(Fighter)
Domain: Rage
Rage Power: Body Bludgeon(13th)
Feat Tree with piercing “fun”: Improved Grapple(1st), Racial Heritage[Ogre](1st), Improvisational Focus(3rd), Weapon Versatility(5th), Raging Brute (7th), Hamatula Strike(9th), Powerful Shape(11th), Shikigami Mimicry(13th), Shikigami Manipulation(15th)
Bonus Feats: Improved Unarmed strike(1st), Shikigami Style(1st), Catch Off-Guard(2nd), Throw Anything(2nd),
Suggested Feats: Shaping Focus
Suggested Gear: Gloves of Improvised Might, Cord of Stubborn Resolve, Pauldrons of the Juggernaut, Swordmaster’s Flair – Blue Scarf, Thorny Ioun Stone(Violet), Brawling(Armor Enchantment), Adhesive(Armor Enchant)
Key Features: • At 13th level you a proficient with enemies you wield and they deal damage equal to 2 size categories larger.
• At 13th level you can pierce an enemy with another enemy

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Titan Mauler Goliath (Fighter/Druid)
Spoiler:

Key concepts: A druid that can shape change into a troll in order to wade into combat
Race: Human or Half-elf or Tiefling or Half-Orc
Racial Trait: Heart of the Fey and Focused Study or Military Tradition(Human), Ancestral Arms or adaptability (Half-elf)
Class: Barbarian (2), Druid(X)
Archetypes: Titan Mauler (Barbarian) / Goliath Druid (Druid)
Eldritch Heritage Bloodline: Abyssal
Domain: Rage
Rage Power: Beast Totem Lesser(2nd), Beast Totem(13th) & Beast Totem Greater(14th)
Feat Tree Pounce: Possessed Hand(1st), Hand’s Autonomy(1st), Two-Weapon Fighting(3rd), Double Slice(5th), Racial Heritage[Ogre](7th), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting(9th), Raging Brute(11th), Extra Rage Power(13th), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (17th)
Feat Tree +6 CON: Skill Focus(1st), Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Butchering Axe](1st), Two-Weapon Fighting(3rd), Double Slice(5th), Eldritch Heritage(7th), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting(9th), Improved Eldritch Heritage(11th), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (17th)
Suggested Feats: Die Hard, Deathless Initiate, Cleave,
Suggested Gear: 2x Shrinking Butchering Axes (Growing, Furious, Impact, Vicious or Furyborn), Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid (Butchering Axe), Cord of Stubborn Resolve, Pauldrons of the Juggernaut, Amulet of the Blooded, Dual-Balanced (weapon mod), Cracked Pale Green Prism
Key Features: • Base Damage for the enlarged Butchering Axe is 4d6
• With Enlarge person damage then becomes 4d6
• With Impact damage becomes 6d6
• At 3rd Level (assuming nat 20 str & E person) Dmg = 4d6+12 (24 avg dmg)
• At 13th Level you can assume the form of a troll gaining regeneration & rend
• At 15th level you can assume the form of a huge giant (24d6 butchering axe)
• At 19th level( (assuming nat 30 str & wildshape & rage) Base Dmg = 24d6+40 (Avg 124/184 max)
• Growing can increase the size again, but only if the weapon is already huge and only for 10 min. per day

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As far as templates go. Honestly, I would just look at AoN or D20PFSRD and start out by applying all of the ones that you can find that don't alter your creature type (gaining subtypes is fine). At the very least you'll want to add things like the advanced template since it's a straight buff. There are other templates that are probably beneficial but you'll just have to look at them closer to make sure they aren't negatively impacting your build also they are probably incompatible with each other so you won't be able to grab more than one of these.

As far as races go. IMO just pick Azlanti. It's human except you get to add the +2 to all of your stats instead of just 1. You still count as being human meaning you can grab the feat racial heritage to count as any other race that's useful to count as. Though depending on what build you decide to go with another race may synergize better.


At those levels, if you are a caster, spells that abuse cl got much more powerful. Specifically battering blast. Max that cl and have fun!


This could be interesting...

How would you build a 25th level Alchemist? make the extra five levels Master Chymist maybe? im not sure. any archetypes? Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

Currently playing in a 20+ Level campaign. It's mostly story than anything else, with live table rules. I had to help 3 players buy there adventuring gear because they are not use to buying at this level. 800,000 is a bit low for the level but still do-able with purchases made.

Let's see covering some basics

+5 Dragon Hide Breast-Plate (+11 Armor Bonus, 10 Energy Resist of coloration choice) [47,350 GP]
Ring Of Evasion [25,000 GP]
Ring Of Protection +5 [50,000 GP]
Bracers of Shielding +5 [(+5 Shield Bonus): 25,000GP]
Cloak Of Resistance +5 [25,000 GP (+5 to all Saving Throws)]
Amulet Of Natural Armor +5 [50,000 GP]
Belt Of Physical Perfection +6 [144,000 GP]
Boots Of Striding & Springing (+10 Base Speed, +5 Acrobatics) [5,500 GP]
Helm Of Comprehend Languages & Read magic [5,200GP]

Which leaves you with plenty of gold left over to design an Intelligent Magical Weapon.

(+11 Armor bonus, +5 Shield Bonus, +5 Deflection Bonus, +5 Natural Armor Bonus, + X Dexterity Bonus = 36+ AC)

Good Saves are going to be 17+ , Bad Saves 11+

The +5 In templates get's a bit harder.

I mean, you could combine say The simple Advanced, Infernal, and Resolute Templates with the Vampire for a Total of +5 CR (thus level 20 becomes CR 24+) But not sure that's the route you want to go with a Druid


Michael Talley 759 wrote:

Currently playing in a 20+ Level campaign. It's mostly story than anything else, with live table rules. I had to help 3 players buy there adventuring gear because they are not use to buying at this level. 800,000 is a bit low for the level but still do-able with purchases made.

Let's see covering some basics

+5 Dragon Hide Breast-Plate (+11 Armor Bonus, 10 Energy Resist of coloration choice) [47,350 GP]
Ring Of Evasion [25,000 GP]
Ring Of Protection +5 [50,000 GP]
Bracers of Shielding +5 [(+5 Shield Bonus): 25,000GP]
Cloak Of Resistance +5 [25,000 GP (+5 to all Saving Throws)]
Amulet Of Natural Armor +5 [50,000 GP]
Belt Of Physical Perfection +6 [144,000 GP]
Boots Of Striding & Springing (+10 Base Speed, +5 Acrobatics) [5,500 GP]
Helm Of Comprehend Languages & Read magic [5,200GP]

Which leaves you with plenty of gold left over to design an Intelligent Magical Weapon.

(+11 Armor bonus, +5 Shield Bonus, +5 Deflection Bonus, +5 Natural Armor Bonus, + X Dexterity Bonus = 36+ AC)

Good Saves are going to be 17+ , Bad Saves 11+

The +5 In templates get's a bit harder.

I mean, you could combine say The simple Advanced, Infernal, and Resolute Templates with the Vampire for a Total of +5 CR (thus level 20 becomes CR 24+) But not sure that's the route you want to go with a Druid

Good advice, but i'm not sure i've said this in a way that people can understand... i get 25 Class Levels + however many templates i want... There is no CR limit...


LordKailas wrote:
When it comes to druids that are competent in melee I do have the following. The nice thing about being a druid is that you can do any of these builds and you also get to still be a 9th level caster.

For my Druidzilla build, I like the Allosaurus: 2 claws and a Bite, and the Bite has Grab, and the Allosaurus has Pounce and Rake. The thing about Natural Attacks is the more you get, the more you get, so lets give this Druidzilla a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, so she also has a Gore Attack, and lets dip her a level in White Haired Witch, so she has a Hair Attack.

The problem with Natural Attacks is none of them do very much Damage, so I'm only proposing 4 levels in Druid to get Wildshape, and most of the rest in Warpriest, and do Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular Natural Weapon Damage. Take the Shaping Focus Feat and 4 of your nondruid Levels count as Druid Levels for the purposes of Wildshape, so by level 8, you will be getting Huge Animals.

Taking Weapon Focus for 6 Natural Attacks is tedious, so instead take Weapon Focus in 1 Weapon in the Natural Weapons Group; take Martial Versatility so you can apply WF to all the rest of them. This means you have to play a Human, Half Elf, or half Orc (Human or half-human) you need 4 levels in Fighter. I'd have you start with a level in Brawler, then take your 4 levels in Druid, then lots of levels in Warpriest. Both the level in Brawler and the levels in Warpriest count as levels in Fighter. This also means you will be able to do this whatever Animal you Polymorph into and whatever Natural Attacks you end up getting. Sometimes it will be more appropriate for you to turn into a Quetzacoutlus or Giant Octopus or something.

If you buff yourself by casting or using a Wand of Strong Jaw you get a 2 spot Virtual Size Increase to go along with the 2 spot actual size increase you get from Wildshaping into a Huge Animal. After 5 levels in Warpriest, the base Damage is 1d8, growing to Size Huge make it 3d6, and then Strong Jaw brings that up to 6d6 per Attack, and you got up to 5 Attacks/Round + Grab & Rake. When you are at Level 20 Warpriest, the base Damage is 2d8, which become 8d8 after Wildshape + Strong Jaw.

Want more?

Have Armor made for yourself with the Wild Enchantment or have Barding made for yourself for your favorite Animal Shapes. Wear Armor Spikes. Armor Spikes do extra Damage whenever you score a successful Grapple Attack, and you White Hair gets a Grapple with every hit, and your Bite does, too because of Grab. Size Medium Armor Spikes do 1d6. Size Huge Armor Spikes do 2d6.

Take the Hamatula Strike Feat, and then all your Attacks that do Piercing Damage also trigger free Grapples: your Gore Attack. Your Bite will too. the Allosaurus gets Grab with the Bite, but HS will give the Grapple even when you choose a shape that doesn't get Grab. Take the Versatile Weapon Feat for your Claws, and they do Piercing Damage, too, and now you get 5 more attacks that all do 2d6 Base Damage.

I mentioned Giant Octopus: they deserve a closer look. They get 8 Tentacle attacks that all have Grab and Constrict. They get a Bite, too. The level of White Haired Witch should still grant that Hair Attack, but the Helm of the Mammoth Lord is problematic per RAW with the Verminous Body type. They are only Size Large, so you lose some Damage/Attack, and Tentacles are Secondary Natural Attacks, and that means a -5 on the Attack Roll and only 1/2 St mod to damage. Take the Multiattack Feat, and the -5 drops to a tolerable -2, but I'm not sure that the Giant Octupus is better at melee than the Allosaurus. Plus, even though this is not a problem per RAW, I can easily see a GM treating you as an Aquatic creature, unable to breathe air while on land.

Anyway, I think this is the groundwork for a melee character that does an obscene amount of Damage.


LordKailas wrote:
When it comes to druids that are competent in melee I do have the following. The nice thing about being a druid is that you can do any of these builds and you also get to still be a 9th level caster.

I see you like Goliath Druids. Might I suggest you dip a level in Fighter with the Titan Fighter Archetype. That means you can use a Weapon 1 size bigger.

Also for a weapon, consider taking the Catch off Guard Feat, wielding a Sledge Hammer, and taking Shikigami Style Feats. 3 of those Feats grant you 3 Virtual Size Increases. So 2d6 becomes 3d6 when you use a Large Hammer instead of a Medium one. It becomes 6d6 when you become a Huge Giant, and Shikigami Style Feats bring that up to 16d6. I think a character like this would benefit from Vital Strike Feats and Great Cleave of course.

I got the idea from someone else on these forums.


I was just reading on these forums on how you can use the Spells Object Possession and Possess Object to take control of a statue and fight while inside it, effectively turning yourself into a Mecha.

I was thinking you take levels as an Eldritch Knight enough to be able to cast Possess Object. That's 11 character levels: 1 in Fighter, 5 in Wizard, and then 5 in Eldritch Knight making you a n 11th level character with a Caster Level 9. You do the Shikigami and Titan Fighter tricks I mentioned in the post above. With those 11 levels, you can control a Huge statue. With 25, you will start as Gargantuan (with a Colossal Sledge Hammer with 3 more Shikigami Style Size increases), and you will have room to to grow into a Colossal mecha as you adventure.

I suppose you could custom-craft an object that gives you Possess Object. That would let you concentrate on your levels and Feats to Martial Classes to more skillfully use your magic mecha, but the levels in Wizard and Eldritch Knight will give you more ability to build bigger and better mecha. I suppose you can do both: crafting magic items with Possess Object and give them to the rest of your martial party members, and be like Team Voltron or something.


An Infinite Oblivion wrote:

Good advice, but i'm not sure i've said this in a way that people can understand... i get 25 Class Levels + however many templates i want... There is no CR limit...

I thought it was Class + racial HD + templates = 25 total levels. You might try a Mystic Theurge build and get 9th level spells in 2 classes.

An Infinite Oblivion wrote:
however many templates i want...

Maple...


Valandil Ancalime wrote:
An Infinite Oblivion wrote:

Good advice, but i'm not sure i've said this in a way that people can understand... i get 25 Class Levels + however many templates i want... There is no CR limit...

I thought it was Class + racial HD + templates = 25 total levels. You might try a Mystic Theurge build and get 9th level spells in 2 classes.

An Infinite Oblivion wrote:
however many templates i want...

Maple...

That may well be the case but my DM is allowing us to build our characters in that fashion

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