Going forward with a sudden shift of gameplay


Advice


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So I just started a new game with a new group. None of us knew what the others were going to play. I went with a healer/buffer type but being unfamiliar with the system chose Angelic Sorcerer. The other players went with a Animal instinct Barbarian, a bomber alchemist, and a leaf druid.

So we get to my problem. I can't compete with the druid with healing and I didn't realize how suck the divine spell list is for buffs/debuffs. Since I went in blind I took magic weapon which hits exactly 0 of my parties primary attacks. Luckily I have a good dex so I can enchant my own crossbow. I needed that since I can't buff or debuff I'm doing damage using my magic crossbow as my big damage spell is actually pretty good. I'm thinking of shifting to a magical archer type build and just start doing damage as my mainstay. Leaving the healing and buffing/debuffing to the druid and just try to augment the druid as a secondary on that front. The problem is I can't find anything to support this besides my magic weapon spell going forward though. So I either need help finding my path forward using this or maybe someone else has suggestions for other possible paths. I'm open to suggestions.


I play an Angelic Sorcerer.
So, my first question is: How come that you don't heal more than a Druid? You have more spell slots, you are a spontaneous caster and you have Angelic Halo (which helps both of you but you are the one using it actively) so you should out heal a Druid easily.
Now, if you speak of out of combat healing, then it's pretty worthless in PF2. Anyone trained in Medicine will put the party to top quite quickly (depending on his feats). You should not consider out of combat healing to be that important.

About buffing/debuffing, the best buffing spell of the Angelic Sorcerer is Circle of Protection cast at 4th level. Maybe you haven't access to it right now, but it should arrive quickly. Unfortunately, it's Uncommon. Speak with your DM to see if you can get it.

When it comes to damage, Divine Sorcerers are quite good once they get to level 7 thanks to Divine Wrath. The strength of this spell is that it deals good damage, and all good and neutral creatures are immune to it. So your party should be completely immune. It's one of the best damage dealing spell in the game at these levels.

Also, at level 8, you can take Crossblooded Evolution. It will allow you to choose a spell from any tradition. If you like debuffing, I encourage you to take, once at level 9, Synesthesia. It's certainly the best single target debuff in the game.
At level 13, you can take Haste. Haste 7 is certainly the best buff spell in the game.


Goodberry is how is killing me in healing. Starting out with two focus points lets him make two good berries for 1d6+4 healing that he can then refocus and make more of letting the barbarian pop healing from his bandolier on demand during combat. His herbalist background lets him outdo my medicine check because of it's bonus in natural surroundings and we are otherwise tied.

As for your other suggestions they are great but since I am 1st level they are way far away. I'm looking for more what to do levels 2-6 and how to define myself during that time.

SuperBidi wrote:

I play an Angelic Sorcerer.

So, my first question is: How come that you don't heal more than a Druid? You have more spell slots, you are a spontaneous caster and you have Angelic Halo (which helps both of you but you are the one using it actively) so you should out heal a Druid easily.
Now, if you speak of out of combat healing, then it's pretty worthless in PF2. Anyone trained in Medicine will put the party to top quite quickly (depending on his feats). You should not consider out of combat healing to be that important.

About buffing/debuffing, the best buffing spell of the Angelic Sorcerer is Circle of Protection cast at 4th level. Maybe you haven't access to it right now, but it should arrive quickly. Unfortunately, it's Uncommon. Speak with your DM to see if you can get it.

When it comes to damage, Divine Sorcerers are quite good once they get to level 7 thanks to Divine Wrath. The strength of this spell is that it deals good damage, and all good and neutral creatures are immune to it. So your party should be completely immune. It's one of the best damage dealing spell in the game at these levels.

Also, at level 8, you can take Crossblooded Evolution. It will allow you to choose a spell from any tradition. If you like debuffing, I encourage you to take, once at level 9, Synesthesia. It's certainly the best single target debuff in the game.
At level 13, you can take Haste. Haste 7 is certainly the best buff spell in the game.


Depending on the deity you follow, you can also consider Blessed Blood which adds 3 spells from the spells granted by your divinity.

It's not much but it sure can shore up the first few levels where the Divine list is the most lacking.

AlSo consider taking fear, it is a good debuff. The Druid can also cast it, but they have other good debuffs like Goblin Pox,as well as CC option like grease,and they would be better for Blasty Blasts as well.

For the future you can also consider Champion dedication, not souch for the armors (though that is great in itself) but for the Focus spells, who are Divine and from CHA.


I'll look into that. I'm following Desna so I'm not sure what that will net me.

Kendaan wrote:

Depending on the deity you follow, you can also consider Blessed Blood which adds 3 spells from the spells granted by your divinity.

It's not much but it sure can shore up the first few levels where the Divine list is the most lacking.

AlSo consider taking fear, it is a good debuff. The Druid can also cast it, but they have other good debuffs like Goblin Pox,as well as CC option like grease,and they would be better for Blasty Blasts as well.

For the future you can also consider Champion dedication, not souch for the armors (though that is great in itself) but for the Focus spells, who are Divine and from CHA.


I appreciate the help so far but I also wanted to make it clear I don't have a problem giving up my initial attempt at gaining the healing nitch to become a ranged striker. If I didn't have such a crappy strength (8) I'd probally go frontline to take some of the pressure off of the BArbarian who is barely standing after most combats. I also kinda like the flavor of an arcane archer type so that isn't a problem.

Also I'd love to hear other options on how to move forward in a different role so to speak. I just wanted to make sure I was clear that I was looking for help on how to improve in that manner.


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Rasiel wrote:
Goodberry is how is killing me in healing. Starting out with two focus points lets him make two good berries for 1d6+4 healing that he can then refocus and make more of letting the barbarian pop healing from his bandolier on demand during combat. His herbalist background lets him outdo my medicine check because of it's bonus in natural surroundings and we are otherwise tied.

Whaaat??? It's 3 actions to take a Goodberry during combat. And you can't refocus your second focus points before level 12. Also, Goodberry lasts for 10 minutes, so most of the time you can't cast it before combat (unless you always manage to have time to prepare before combat, but I highly doubt it).

Goodberries are only for out of combat healing.


If my players' experience of Plaguestone is anything to go by, having multiple PCs who can provide healing in and out of combat is very useful.


Unless I am wrong you honestly can just pick Heal as a signature spell and use it when necessary. Then the rest of the spells can be whatever you want so you don't really have to "focus" on healing. I have read the divine list is the weakest list, but that is very subjective and I am sure there are plenty of good spells to choose from.

When it comes to goodberry I am pretty sure you are playing it wrong. I am not 100% on all the rulings but it has a lot of issues for "combat" healing. Things to remember is it last 10 minutes so casting it pre combat would be tough, it is not free to eat a berry in combat, has a range of touch, cost 2 actions.


Being secondary healer and ranged damage should work fine.

Maybe some abjuration to help out with preventing damage in addition to healing it afterwards. So spells like Protection and Sanctuary.

As for the archery part of the magical archer build:

Magic Weapon you already have. You might also look at Disrupting Weapon if your campaign ever goes up against undead.

If you can get proficiency with a bow, that would be good. It has better attack speed than the crossbow. But since you also have spells to throw out, that isn't quite as important. Reload in spare actions around casting spells and moving.

There isn't much in the way of sorcerer feats for helping directly with ranged weapon attacks for several levels. I am seeing Bespell Weapon at level 4. I haven't ever tried using it, but it looks a bit difficult to pull off to me. But maybe with the lax GM'ing shown with the houserules on Goodberry you could get the GM to let you use it with spells cast at the end of the previous round. That may even be how it is supposed to work - it is a bit unclear to me.


Rasiel wrote:

Goodberry is how is killing me in healing. Starting out with two focus points lets him make two good berries for 1d6+4 healing that he can then refocus and make more of letting the barbarian pop healing from his bandolier on demand during combat. His herbalist background lets him outdo my medicine check because of it's bonus in natural surroundings and we are otherwise tied.

As for your other suggestions they are great but since I am 1st level they are way far away. I'm looking for more what to do levels 2-6 and how to define myself during that time.

SuperBidi wrote:

I play an Angelic Sorcerer.

So, my first question is: How come that you don't heal more than a Druid? You have more spell slots, you are a spontaneous caster and you have Angelic Halo (which helps both of you but you are the one using it actively) so you should out heal a Druid easily.
Now, if you speak of out of combat healing, then it's pretty worthless in PF2. Anyone trained in Medicine will put the party to top quite quickly (depending on his feats). You should not consider out of combat healing to be that important.

About buffing/debuffing, the best buffing spell of the Angelic Sorcerer is Circle of Protection cast at 4th level. Maybe you haven't access to it right now, but it should arrive quickly. Unfortunately, it's Uncommon. Speak with your DM to see if you can get it.

When it comes to damage, Divine Sorcerers are quite good once they get to level 7 thanks to Divine Wrath. The strength of this spell is that it deals good damage, and all good and neutral creatures are immune to it. So your party should be completely immune. It's one of the best damage dealing spell in the game at these levels.

Also, at level 8, you can take Crossblooded Evolution. It will allow you to choose a spell from any tradition. If you like debuffing, I encourage you to take, once at level 9, Synesthesia. It's certainly the best single target debuff in the game.
At level 13, you can take Haste. Haste 7 is certainly the best buff

...

How did he start with two focus points? As I read it you start the game with 1 focus point when you get your first focus spell. Does he have some other ability that gave him a focus point?

And you should have a focus point to cast Angelic Halo which boosts your healing a bit.


Deriven Firelion wrote:
How did he start with two focus points?

Druidic Order gives you a focus pool by itself, and the Leaf and Storm orders explicitly increase that pool if they are the choice you make.

So a druid starts with 1 focus point if they are Animal or Wild order, or 2 focus points if they are Leaf or Storm order.

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