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I didn't get to catch the stream, so to clarify - do we know that Fists is actually going to be a martial arts tournament story? Or could the tournament just be a framing setting for something else?
They said the first book was a set of tests to qualify for the tournament, the second book was the tournament, and the third book was after the tournament. So clearly there's more going on than just winning a tournament.
I didn't get to catch the stream, so to clarify - do we know that Fists is actually going to be a martial arts tournament story? Or could the tournament just be a framing setting for something else?
There is almost certainly something else going on behind the scenes than "these people fight, and some win, and eventually one person is the champion" since that's basically a required for this sort of thing.
Like "it's just a fighting tournament" would be the equivalent of "it's a murder mystery, but there's only one suspect and they did it."
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I didn't get to catch the stream, so to clarify - do we know that Fists is actually going to be a martial arts tournament story? Or could the tournament just be a framing setting for something else?There is almost certainly something else going on behind the scenes than "these people fight, and some win, and eventually one person is the champion" since that's basically a required for this sort of thing.
Like "it's just a fighting tournament" would be the equivalent of "it's a murder mystery, but there's only one suspect and they did it."
*crosses fingers for Skittermander challengers*
Here I am hoping for a final confrontation in a maze of mirrors. Would be fun :)
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And generating adventures for levels 1-9 sounds like a great time.Of all possible complaints, this one is the most bizarre. You can just start at level 11.
I wasn't complaining. I can see how in text it may seem sarcastic, but I actually really enjoy writing Pathfinder adventures, especially on the low-end of the level scale.
To be honest I was expecting it to be a Land of the Linnorm Kings AP, but only because I've put a huge amount of time into homebrewing my own 1-20 campaign that takes place there.
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I didn't get to catch the stream, so to clarify - do we know that Fists is actually going to be a martial arts tournament story? Or could the tournament just be a framing setting for something else?They said the first book was a set of tests to qualify for the tournament, the second book was the tournament, and the third book was after the tournament. So clearly there's more going on than just winning a tournament.
I fully expect it to involve the return of the Ruby Phoenix.
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I didn't get to catch the stream, so to clarify - do we know that Fists is actually going to be a martial arts tournament story? Or could the tournament just be a framing setting for something else?They said the first book was a set of tests to qualify for the tournament, the second book was the tournament, and the third book was after the tournament. So clearly there's more going on than just winning a tournament.
Final book is supposed to be the tournament falling apart towards the end, as a new adversary interrupts and causes the PCs to fight them to try and prevent the new adversary from claiming the tournament's reward.
So a typical pop culture tournament arc, ala Naruto's Chuunin Exam.
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So first thing first is that considering amount of anime made for japanese audience and popularity of tournament arcs, implying that tournament arc is stereotypically offensive is weird for me :p That said I can't really speak for the audience it might be offensive to
But now back to real topic: I'm hyped about ruby phoenix ap, but I doubt all 3 books will be in single tournament. I assume it will be more like "first book is in tournament and you win something from tournament that puts you on path to have epic anime fight with big bad"
If on otherhand the tournament is full three books, that is awesome too :O Ruby phoenix module had problem of "Too much content for really short module that hadn't time to focus on any of it in detail", so this time it gives chances to expand the downtime of tournament a lot, lot more character focus and lot of ruby phoenix tournament exhibition matches were "do something not tournament related!" in the module.
I'm extra happy for tian xia ap that starts in tian xia :3
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And what comes for three Isle of Kortos ap, I think that is great :3 we got almost zero absalom content in 1e and all of these three aps are different: one of them is in isle itself, one of them is in absalom and third one is mega dungeon which let's face it, could be anywhere without it being relevant :p So yeah, I think its cool to have there isle of kortos aps and then moving to other stuff.
Just from the fact that Pathfinder is structurally a cooperative storytelling game where a number of player characters work together to navigate a story adjudicated by a GM, you knew the endgame for the "Martial Arts Tournament" AP has to be able to be something other than "one person stands victorious, the rest of the party defeated."
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Just from the fact that Pathfinder is structurally a cooperative storytelling game where a number of player characters work together to navigate a story adjudicated by a GM, you knew the endgame for the "Martial Arts Tournament" AP has to be able to be something other than "one person stands victorious, the rest of the party defeated."
I mean, the last tournament module DID allow competing as team ;D That is anime trope as well from what I've seen actually.(not that tournament being interrupted on final round isn't anime trope as well)
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SO they did give us the Names of the books for both.
Abomination Vaults: 1. Ruins of Gauntlight 2. Hands of the Devil 3. Eyes of Empty Death.
Fists of the Ruby Phoenix: 1. Despair on Danger Island 2. Ready, Fight! 3. King of the Mountain
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Here is what I noted about the announcement for the Fist of the Ruby Phoenix book titles by Patrick Renie and the comments he made about each:
1)Despair on Danger Island: A "Battle Royal/Hunger Games" on a jungle island to survive and qualify for the tournament.
2)Ready, Fight! The Grand Tournament
3)King of the Mountain: when things go wrong and some powerful entity messes up the tournament and claim the title for themselves, like Dragon Ball Z apparently.
Edit: I should emphasize that this is my take on what he said and not his words verbatim.
Edit 2: I would encourage anyone who is interested to watch the whole panel on Adventure Path Design on Twitch. It starts at about 1:55 in the video titled "Organize Play Marquee Event - PaizoConOnline 2020. It took me a couple of minutes to find.
I've loved all the APs bar Iron Gods and Reign of Winter and these are no exception.
Really glad to be going back to Tian Xia. Really glad to see a megadungeon.
Would have preferred to see them both be 6 books but as usual with paizo that just means my only complaint is 'I wamt more!'
(I WAS a fan of both 3 part APs in Starfinder so presumably this will be the same).
So looking forward to all the upcoming goodness! :)
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Super excited that they announced two 3 part AP's.
Running through a Mega Dungeon is just not my groups jam but I'm glad that others who like that style of game get a full three books to play through (instead of the usual one out of six).
Plus it means we don't have to wait a full six months for other content we might like more.
Jason Tondro mentioned they have a two page list of AP ideas the want to write and if we get to see an extra one or two of those ideas come to life each year the game will be only better for it.
On a slight tangent to this I'm also a fan of each of these AP's not necessarily having to have world ending events the characters need to thwart. Not every hero's story has to be about saving the world twice a year.
Good job Paizo team.
Creative Director
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Can't wait to see these APs in the future and I'm a sucker for tournaments. Just hoping the Ashen Man makes an appearance in the future. I've been building hints to him in my Age of Ashes campaign and Extinction Curse as being a Thanos-like character.
The Ashen Man is a fella I've got some plans for. As such, I've got my marker on him so he probably WON'T be doing much in a product I'm not the lead developer on.
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And... this makes six APs in a row that don't interest me. Fist of the Ruby Phoenix is the closest, and I'm skeptical that it might be too focused on the tournament part.The decision to spend 15 months of publishing in the same general geographic location is certainly not one I'm in love with.
I’m really surprised to see the concern about focussing in one area. Just goes to show how many differences there are in approaching the game. I much prefer fleshing out an area and seeing lots of potential stories to tell there. I loved the historical focus on varisia (there wasn’t enough of that in the PF1 era, for me) and feel the same about this. (Similarly I really like WotC’s focus on the sword coast out of all of the Forgotten Realms).
Lots and lots of regions all having one AP would be far less satisfying to me - it would feel token and half-baked, I suspect.
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And... this makes six APs in a row that don't interest me. Fist of the Ruby Phoenix is the closest, and I'm skeptical that it might be too focused on the tournament part.The decision to spend 15 months of publishing in the same general geographic location is certainly not one I'm in love with.I’m really surprised to see the concern about focussing in one area. Just goes to show how many differences there are in approaching the game. I much prefer fleshing out an area and seeing lots of potential stories to tell there. I loved the historical focus on varisia (there wasn’t enough of that in the PF1 era, for me) and feel the same about this. (Similarly I really like WotC’s focus on the sword coast out of all of the Forgotten Realms).
Lots and lots of regions all having one AP would be far less satisfying to me - it would feel token and half-baked, I suspect.
One of the main complaints from Realms fans is that the entire rest of the setting beyond the Sword Coast has gone unloved for years now.
As for this specific example, the region in question doesn’t interest me, which means that for over a year straight now, I just get to tune out all AP content. Golarion is a big world, with a lot of regions I like and no few that I don’t, so feeling left out isn’t all that fun.
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One of the groups I play and GM in has very purposely played in Asian campaign settings for 10 years. When the Jade Regent AP came out, we sunk into it and REALLY enjoyed the entire arc. Some of that was certainly spending time back in Sandpoint and learning more about Ameiko and her family. Then we loved the idea of traveling north on a caravan instead of being tied to one town or area. Then, there were ninjas fighting vikings!! And then we adventured across the frozen north. It was fantastic and epic. And as we finally entered Tian Xia, yes, we certainly had characters that were "westerners" experiencing a very different culture, but that led to some fantastic role playing by our players. There were also a few who found their characters traveling to the homeland of their ancestors, which made for some incredible moments and character development. We always felt the material was respectful of culture, as was our group, including our GM for those final chapters whose family immigrated from Asia. Jade Regent stands as one of my favorite experiences playing the game I love. I'm excited to have more adventures in that part of the setting!
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There is another reason why I'm not minding three aps in isle of kortos(besides megadungeon being irrelevant setting wise and isle being underveleoped before): It gives writers more time to flesh out new and old areas and changes on basis of 10 years of aps :3 Like, I'd assume tian xia ap coincidences with new dragon empires book ;D
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And... this makes six APs in a row that don't interest me. Fist of the Ruby Phoenix is the closest, and I'm skeptical that it might be too focused on the tournament part.The decision to spend 15 months of publishing in the same general geographic location is certainly not one I'm in love with.I’m really surprised to see the concern about focussing in one area. Just goes to show how many differences there are in approaching the game. I much prefer fleshing out an area and seeing lots of potential stories to tell there. I loved the historical focus on varisia (there wasn’t enough of that in the PF1 era, for me) and feel the same about this. (Similarly I really like WotC’s focus on the sword coast out of all of the Forgotten Realms).
Lots and lots of regions all having one AP would be far less satisfying to me - it would feel token and half-baked, I suspect.
One of the main complaints from Realms fans is that the entire rest of the setting beyond the Sword Coast has gone unloved for years now.
As for this specific example, the region in question doesn’t interest me, which means that for over a year straight now, I just get to tune out all AP content. Golarion is a big world, with a lot of regions I like and no few that I don’t, so feeling left out isn’t all that fun.
Oh yeah - I totally get it. It’s just not my taste. I didn’t mean to suggest you were wrong for wanting variety (or focus elsewhere).
I was just surprised - I would never have considered that an issue without reading the forums.
Another Ruby Phoenix installment? Sounds pretty neat. I wonder what the level range will be, though.
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I've loved all the APs bar Iron Gods and Reign of Winter and these are no exception.
Really glad to be going back to Tian Xia. Really glad to see a megadungeon.
Would have preferred to see them both be 6 books but as usual with paizo that just means my only complaint is 'I wamt more!'
(I WAS a fan of both 3 part APs in Starfinder so presumably this will be the same).
So looking forward to all the upcoming goodness! :)
Iron Gods and Reign of Winter are two of my three favorite APs.
We can be opposite taste buddies!
It is hard to drag out a mega dungeon that starts on the material plane at level 1 for more than half a character's career and keep an interesting narrative reason for level 18-19 planes hopping adversaries to be hanging around. It is not impossible, but I am a bigger fan of letting adventures be as long as they need to tell the story and then let the characters mov on to the next story.
What has really piqued my curiosity was the response I got to my question about any current plans for an Extra-terrestrial adventure, and Erik Mona giving hints that there has been something being talked about involving another planet in the Golarion system for PF2 and then pushed it back on Ron Lundeen in a way that made me think that might be happening sooner than later. Maybe as a part of a certain Mawangi module instead of an AP, but it sounds like they have some interesting stuff in the works.
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I do wonder who is big bad of Fist of Ruby Phoenix... Would be fun if "King in the Mountain" was oni daimyo whose realm was in mountain :D
I think at least one Paizonian said in one of the seminars that they like neutral villains more than evil. As I recall, they were talking fondly of Grigori, that seditious malcontent, from Kingmaker. I can't remember the exact wording, but I think they described the threat in this AP as obscure and from way back. Given these two half-remembered notions, I predict the ultimate foe will be Grand Master Fallen Sword, the Empty-Handed Shogun of the Tsu Zau Na. Perhaps the reappearance of Tar-Baphon was the eight Sign of Ending the Kusari-Gama have been awaiting? If so, I for one look forward to some makhana and tea at the Jade Pagoda in the Qiang Tian when it's done.
11-20.
That sounds pretty excellent! Thanks for the info.
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I never played the original module, so I bought it to read this week, and something occurs to me. If the previous decade's winners are traditionally brought back as judges, we're going to see stand-ins for player characters, right? Which probably means an iconic or two.
Which Iconic do you think will be there? Damiel, Alain, Alahazra, and Oloch would amuse me, but what do y'all think?
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I never played the original module, so I bought it to read this week, and something occurs to me. If the previous decade's winners are traditionally brought back as judges, we're going to see stand-ins for player characters, right? Which probably means an iconic or two.
Which Iconic do you think will be there? Damiel, Alain, Alahazra, and Oloch would amuse me, but what do y'all think?
Between the robes and the facial hair, I feel like little Balazar brings big Pai Mei energy, and hence deserves to be at the top of the list. Yoon and Reiko are from the Dragon Empires. For a fourth, I'd want someone with a sword, so Amiri, Oloch, Sajan, Jirelle, or even Ameiko Kaijitsu are all in contention.
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Between the robes and the facial hair, I feel like little Balazar brings big Pai Mei energy, and hence deserves to be at the top of the list. Yoon and Reiko are from the Dragon Empires. For a fourth, I'd want someone with a sword, so Amiri, Oloch, Sajan, Jirelle, or even Ameiko Kaijitsu are all in contention.I never played the original module, so I bought it to read this week, and something occurs to me. If the previous decade's winners are traditionally brought back as judges, we're going to see stand-ins for player characters, right? Which probably means an iconic or two.
Which Iconic do you think will be there? Damiel, Alain, Alahazra, and Oloch would amuse me, but what do y'all think?
Unlike an Iconic, Ameiko has a canonical level, and it's too low to credibly participate in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
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Unlike an Iconic, Ameiko has a canonical level, and it's too low to credibly participate in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
Per the final book of Jade Regent, Ameiko should be one or two levels behind the PCs of that AP by that book, and those PCs end at 16th level. So she's 14th or 15th level or so canonically. That's more than high enough for the tournament, or at least was in PF1.
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Unlike an Iconic, Ameiko has a canonical level, and it's too low to credibly participate in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.Between the robes and the facial hair, I feel like little Balazar brings big Pai Mei energy, and hence deserves to be at the top of the list. Yoon and Reiko are from the Dragon Empires. For a fourth, I'd want someone with a sword, so Amiri, Oloch, Sajan, Jirelle, or even Ameiko Kaijitsu are all in contention.I never played the original module, so I bought it to read this week, and something occurs to me. If the previous decade's winners are traditionally brought back as judges, we're going to see stand-ins for player characters, right? Which probably means an iconic or two.
Which Iconic do you think will be there? Damiel, Alain, Alahazra, and Oloch would amuse me, but what do y'all think?
Also unlike an iconic, Ameiko is an NPC with a story in the campaign and (while she's based on a PC I played) is not actually meant to be a surrogate PC. She's also the Empress of Minkai, so she's pretty busy.
I missed the Adventure Path seminar today. Was anything announced/hinted at after Abomination Vaults and Ruby Phoenix?
I missed the Adventure Path seminar today. Was anything announced/hinted at after Abomination Vaults and Ruby Phoenix?
No.
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Unlike previous years, when we announced the next year's Gen Con release Adventure Path, this year we've got two three part Adventure Paths in the first half of 2021. Rather than bury those under another anouncemnt, we chose to focus our talk on those two (Abomination Vaults and the Fists of the Ruby Phoenix), along with currently releasing Agents of Edgewatch and 2nd-half 2021's release of Kingmaker, rather than to also cram even more information in about a fifth Adventure Path.
We'll announce that one later. In Autumn, I suspect. Stay tuned!
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Unlike previous years, when we announced the next year's Gen Con release Adventure Path, this year we've got two three part Adventure Paths in the first half of 2021. Rather than bury those under another anouncemnt, we chose to focus our talk on those two (Abomination Vaults and the Fists of the Ruby Phoenix), along with currently releasing Agents of Edgewatch and 2nd-half 2021's release of Kingmaker, rather than to also cram even more information in about a fifth Adventure Path.
We'll announce that one later. In Autumn, I suspect. Stay tuned!
Totally fair! Doesn't mean we're not all wildly curious though. :)
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I'll be honest, I definitely tuned out a bit on Abomination Vaults when it heard it was another Isle of Kortos AP...
However, as soon as I realized it's a megadungeon, I tuned fully back in. Megadungeons are bar none my favorite things to run or play, and I can't wait for an official megadungeon AP. All of my yes. ALL of my yes.
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One of the whole points of us setting three Adventure Paths on the Isle of Kortos is to finally turn that line's attention to the region, but also to show that it's not a tiny little island. During 1st edition, we barely did ANYTHING with the Isle at all, and since Absalom is supposedly the "city at the center of the world" it was past time to catch up.
Furthermore, we've taken pains to make sure that all three of these Adventure Paths—Extinction Curse, Agents of Edgewatch, and Abomination Vaults—do not cross paths. You won't revisit locations between these Adventure Paths, and the campaigns they present are all VERY different.
They also break down into the three classic adventure genres, in fact—dungeon (Abomination Vaults), wilderness (Extinction Curse), and urban (Agents of Edgewatch).
They further break down into very different themes for your party composition—chaotic (circus performers), lawful (investigators and protectors), and any (classic dungeon exploring PCs).
I can confirm that they're as different from each other as were Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Second Darkness—three very different Adventure Paths that took place in the same region.
I can also confirm that once we move on from the region with Abomination Vaults, we're unlikely to return to the Isle of Kortos for several Adventure Paths. Again... just like we did with Varisia the first time around in the era before the Pathfinder RPG even existed.
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With the announcement that we are getting a major Magic focused rules book, does this increase the odds that we are soon getting a Magaambya centered AP? That explores ancient magics beyond Thassalon?
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With the announcement that we are getting a major Magic focused rules book, does this increase the odds that we are soon getting a Magaambya centered AP? That explores ancient magics beyond Thassalon?
I would be so happy. Add in hopefully a Lost Omens book about the University and some of the strange peoples who you can be there (Anadi ancestry some day), and I'd buy and run the shit out of those!
That said, that's a lot of gambling on non-European fantasy settings, haha. The market appeal for African fantasy is probably unfortunately a lot more complex. But I want it anyways. Especially as, like Absalom, the Magaambya is a big and powerful enough setting for any level of adventurer to find value in.
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well look at that, everything you predicted is happeningWith the announcement that we are getting a major Magic focused rules book, does this increase the odds that we are soon getting a Magaambya centered AP? That explores ancient magics beyond Thassalon?I would be so happy. Add in hopefully a Lost Omens book about the University and some of the strange peoples who you can be there (Anadi ancestry some day), and I'd buy and run the s&+@ out of those!
I know, right? My jaw was dropping during the stream! :)
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Yeah, I have to say PF2 is continuing to deliver the goods. They have me figured out and how to get my money.