Escape DC for Ectoplasmic Snare?

Rules Questions

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Ectoplasmic Snare wrote:
You launch a writhing tendril of ectoplasm to snare a creature. Make a ranged attack roll against your target’s EAC. If you hit, the target can attempt a Reflex save. On a successful save, the target is entangled for the duration. If the target fails, it is grappled and takes 2d6 bludgeoning damage each round it remains so. If the target escapes the grapple, it remains entangled for the duration. While the target remains grappled, you can move it up to 15 feet each time you concentrate on the spell. If the distance between you and the target ever exceeds the spell’s range, the snare disappears. This spell affects ethereal and incorporeal creatures.

Normally, the DC to escape a grapple is 10 + the grappler's KAC. Alternatively, when restrained by bindings/rope it becomes 20 + 1.5 the opponent's CR.

Any thoughts on how to calculate an escape DC from this spell if a target is hit and fails their initial saving throw? Without further guidance, the tendril of ectoplasm is sort of a "binding" and thus 20 + 1.5 the caster's CR, I guess (which seems a bit high to me in the middle of combat)?

Thanks in advance!

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While it might not make much sense, I'd say it's still 10+KAC.

Garretmander wrote:
While it might not make much sense, I'd say it's still 10+KAC.

The caster's KAC? I mean, with nothing else to go on, it makes just as much sense as the 20 + 1.5 the caster's CR (and a GM on the fly is more likely to accept that number, too).

Since this is from an AP and not a hardcover, I'm not super hopeful for an official FAQ/reply, but still...

I'd tend to think the escape DC would be linked to the spell's save, rather than the caster's KAC, since you're not interacting physically with the caster.

But then, things that don't make a lot of sense have been proved to be the rule before, so I wouldn't be surprised if it involves the caster's KAC.

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Another local GM suggested an interesting (and possibly elegant) idea: 10 + the target's own KAC, since they're being restrained inside their own armor, after a fashion.

I do like Pantshandshake's idea about the DC being linked to the save DC, but I can't figure out how to get there using the grapple rules as they exist currently.

If/when I use this spell, I may just warn the GM in advance and show them this thread and let them take their pick:

- 10 + Caster's KAC
- 10 + Target's KAC
- 20 + 1.5 Caster's CR (unlikely)
- 10 + Spell DC ?
- Just Spell DC ?

9 times out of 10 I'm the one GMing so at least it shouldn't come up, much! :P

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