Critique my campaign idea: LOSING, not gaining, Mythic as the game progresses.

[Reksew_Trebla]

The idea is that your character is becoming less relevant, whether from age, lack of training, or what have you, and as such, they need to come to terms with the fact that they are no longer the main heroes of the world. They will have to pass the torch onto a new generation of heroes, and they just have to accept the reality of their situation.

Other than starting at Mythic Tier 10, they are normal, level 1 characters. They will lose a MT at every even level, so at level 20, they no longer are Mythic. The end goal for them is setting up a new group of heroes to be the defenders of the world, so they can finally retire.

What do you think of my idea?

[Mudfoot]

Level 1 MT10 will be mondo bizarro indeed. I have no idea how you might hold that together.

[Firebug]

Might be easier to gain 10 mythic tiers level 1-10 and then lose 10 tiers level 11-20.

That way you get the coming into power section, and then start passing it off when you aren't level 1.

[Reksew_Trebla]

Firebug wrote:

Might be easier to gain 10 mythic tiers level 1-10 and then lose 10 tiers level 11-20.

That way you get the coming into power section, and then start passing it off when you aren't level 1.

That could actually work nicely. Thank you for the suggestion.

[thorin001]

Not likely to work. Players generally try to increase their power, not decrease it. Players tend to resent loss of abilities.

Another issue is calibration of encounters. Mythic already makes it difficult to do so, but with everchanging tiers it will be doubly problematic.

[LordKailas]

If players know up front that this is what's going to happen and they agree to it, it will probably be ok. But the players may find it to not be particularly fun after awhile.

It reminds me of the boardgame Last of The Independents in that game each player plays the role of a failing car manufacturer where you get less money each turn. At the end of the game everyone goes out of business and you score points based on how well you "fell with style".

The game was certainly an "experience" but it was one that personally left me feeling slightly depressed (and IIRC I came in 2nd).

I imagine that players may become disinterested in the game after 10th level when they start losing power. Unless you can make the story compelling enough to keep them engaged. Afterall, it would be pretty disheartening to lose a mythic ability that became a cornerstone of the character's abilities.

With the right group it would probably be fun. But those types of players probably don't play pathfinder very much.

What you're proposing is a more dramatic and painful version of the "the guards lock you up and take all your stuff", which is a common scenario that tends to piss off many players. You rarely if ever get someone saying, "oh cool! I love it when this happens".

[Ryan Freire]

This is honestly an amazing idea for a "fall of the high age" type of campaign.

[Scott Wilhelm]

You're changing the genre. It isn't heroic fantasy anymore. That doesn't mean it won't be good. You should make it clear to your group that that is what you are doing, make sure they know what they are getting into.

Star Trek Picard is doing what you are trying to do. That's also what Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is. Most people like Star Trek Picard. Most people HATED Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Most people want to play Luke Skywalker, but most people like Obi Wan.

[blahpers]

This is a cool idea even apart from the "passing the torch" aspect.

I kinda like the level 1 MT 10 thing downhill thing. Would make a great setup for a Xena-esque "twilight of the gods" campaign where your party of demigods go and knock off (or convince to leave) each of a whole pantheon of native gods, with the addition that you're removing the only sources of mythic power from the world.

Nice one, Reksew_Trebla!

[Joey Cote]

My biggest head scratch with this idea is, if the characters are going out into the world and defeating plots and monsters that are a threat to the local civilizations, then how are they becoming less relevant? If they aren't defeating such threats, then what are they doing to (usually) gain levels so rapidly?

Even if you started in one part of the world then moved the campaign to another part of the world, the character's actions, if adventuring, are still going to be relevant for that area.

This idea sounds great for a way to build a campaign against a horrible ancient threat that turns out to not be as powerful as expected. Say like a ancient lich king that has spent the last few hundred or thousand years in his tomb working on magics that decides to see what is going on outside (doesn't have access to divination magic maybe) and sees his old empire fallen into dust. Angered at the vanishing of what he built he tries to conquer the lands again. Back before he vanished he was an epic 10 but due to his time isolated from the world he has devolved into an epic 1 or 0. Or a demon lord or any other such thing that had been trapped for millennia.

[Ryan Freire]

Joey Cote wrote:

My biggest head scratch with this idea is, if the characters are going out into the world and defeating plots and monsters that are a threat to the local civilizations, then how are they becoming less relevant? If they aren't defeating such threats, then what are they doing to (usually) gain levels so rapidly?

Ok, so these big mythic beasties are existential threats to the non mythic peons out there...so naturally the heros/demigods of the time have to defeat them, but lo and behold as each of these mythic beasts are defeated, a little more power goes out of the world, magic just isn't as strong as it used to be...the heros never quite live up to the stories

[PFRPGrognard]

Rh, I wouldn't try to run this. Game balance will be all over the place. Game are supposed to add APL+5 for a tier ten game. That means level one characters would need to fight does around CR 6 to CR 9 starting out. I imagine they'd have quite a bit of difficulty - even with the Mythic tiers.

Still, it's your game, so go for it. If it works, post back and let us know how it worked out.

[PFRPGrognard]

*GMs
*foes

(Autocorrect killed me)

[MaUC]

The concept is cool... For a book.

For a game... It'll probably be frustrating and/or annoying to players.

I'm not saying it can't work, but I don't know any players that would be excited about consistently losing cool their powers and abilities.

A better idea might be giving them MT10, then take it all away at once and have then gradually recover their powers and ultimately surpass their previous selves.

[Saffron Marvelous]

Definitely something to outline a bit with the players before you start, so they know what's coming. Personally, rather than taking it away step by step, I'd go for doing it in two or three big chunks so you can make a big deal out of it.

I'd suggest tying the loss of their abilities to Big Heroes moments, like Dragonmaster Dyne stepping into Althena's power channel and losing his power. Or it takes a sacrifice to seal a Bad Thing, or SOMEONE better run out over the swirling power vortex to save the destiny child. I'd definitely tie it into setting up the next generation too. My Hero Academia totally does this kind of arc extremely well and the first couple seasons might be a good watch for some ideas.

[NorthernDruid]

I love the idea, you should absolutely hammer out the details with your players though.

I think it might be more natural to start at a higher level, and then coordinate the dropping off of power with the rise of a new generation that the players can gain real investment in.

The gaining during 1-10 and waning during 11-20 also sounds compelling.

There's lots of ways of doing it though, depending on how long a campaign you want and what kind of campaign your players want to play out. And exactly what flavour of waning power you want (is it passing the torch, is it myths growing weaker over time, is it a personal tradegy, etc.). Figuring out which ones you and your players want to do will do a lot for figuring out what to do.