# Expert Leaper rogue talent + Acrobatics skill unlock

### Rules Questions

I'm in the process of making an unchained leaping rogue and I took Expert Leaper and Rogues Edge (Acrobatics) at separate points in the build process. As I was going over everything I started to get confused how they would work together (if at all).

Expert Leaper (Ex): When using the Acrobatics skill to jump, a rogue with this talent is always considered to have a running start and adds her rogue level to the check result. Whenever she deliberately falls, a successful DC 15 Acrobatics check allows her to ignore the first 20 feet fallen. For every 5 by which she exceeds the DC of this check, she can ignore an additional 10 feet of distance fallen.

Acrobatics skill unlock: With a successful DC 20 Acrobatics check, you treat an unintentional fall as 10 feet shorter plus 10 feet for every 10 by which you exceed the DC, and treat an intentional fall as 10 feet shorter for every 10 by which you exceed the DC.

They are both in Pathfinder Unchained, so they should be compatible (I would think), but I'm not sure how.

Expert Leaper alone would get the following:
DC 15 - 20' less, DC 20 - 30' less, DC 25 - 40' less, ...

Acrobatics skill unlock would get the following:
DC 15 - 10' less, DC 25 - 20' less, DC 35 - 30' less, ...

Would you take the best (which would always be Expert Leaper) or would you combine the two (every 5 makes it 10' less, with a bonus 10' at every 10):
AKA
DC 15 - 20' less, DC 20 - 30' less, DC 25 - 50' less, DC 30 - 60' less, DC 35 - 80' less, ...?

Or something else I hadn't considered?

Thanks!!!

Normally:

If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumps, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Acrobatics check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.
...........................................

So, under normal circumstances, a DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first TEN feet... blah blah blah.

With Expert Leaper, a DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first TWENTY feet! Ooh...

The Skill Unlock requires a DC 20 Acrobatics check, which is automatically going to activate and exceed the Expert Leaper DC 15 check by 5 if you make the 20 for your Skill Unlock.

You have both, and intentionally jump off a roof or whatever:

You get a 21 on your Acrobatics check, which exceeds Expert Leaper by 5 and just barely passes the Skill Unlock check...

By exceeding the Expert Leaper check by 5, you avoid any damage from the first 30' of your intentional fall.

By passing the Skill Unlock check, you treat the entire fall as if it is 10' shorter.

If you jumped off a 40' roof, you hit the ground unscathed with a 21 Acrobatics check.

If your Acrobatics check had been a 35 on an international fall:

Expert Leaper would allow you to avoid any damage from the first SIXTY feet, because you exceeded the DC 15 by 20.

Skill Unlock check was exceeded by 10, therefore you count the entire fall as 20' shorter.

If you had jumped off a 80' roof, you would land on the ground unscathed with a 35 Acrobatics check.

Expert Leaper is allowing you to avoid any damage from the fall up to a certain distance based on your check...

Your Skill Unlock is literally bringing the ground closer to you for all intents and purposes.

VoodistMonk wrote:

Normally:

If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumps, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Acrobatics check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.
...........................................

So, under normal circumstances, a DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first TEN feet... blah blah blah.

With Expert Leaper, a DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first TWENTY feet! Ooh...

The Skill Unlock requires a DC 20 Acrobatics check, which is automatically going to activate and exceed the Expert Leaper DC 15 check by 5 if you make the 20 for your Skill Unlock.

You have both, and intentionally jump off a roof or whatever:

You get a 21 on your Acrobatics check, which exceeds Expert Leaper by 5 and just barely passes the Skill Unlock check...

By exceeding the Expert Leaper check by 5, you avoid any damage from the first 30' of your intentional fall.

By passing the Skill Unlock check, you treat the entire fall as if it is 10' shorter.

If you jumped off a 40' roof, you hit the ground unscathed with a 21 Acrobatics check.

If your Acrobatics check had been a 35 on an international fall:

Expert Leaper would allow you to avoid any damage from the first SIXTY feet, because you exceeded the DC 15 by 20.

Skill Unlock check was exceeded by 10, therefore you count the entire fall as 20' shorter.

If you had jumped off a 80' roof, you would land on the ground unscathed with a 35 Acrobatics check.

Expert Leaper is...

It took a few times for me to go over this but I think I've got it now.

Thanks! :)

Ok, wait. How does that effect Branch Pounce?

Branch Pounce (Combat)
Source Ultimate Wilderness pg. 107, Heroes of the Wild pg. 22
You are adept at exploiting higher ground to its greatest advantage in battle, and can leap from above to deal incredible damage to your foes.

Prerequisites: Climb 3 ranks, Stealth 3 ranks.

Benefit: When charging a target by jumping down from above (such as when jumping out of a tree), you can soften your fall with a melee attack. If the attack at the end of your charge hits, the attack deals damage as normal and you also deal the amount of falling damage appropriate to your fall to the target (1d6 points for a 10-foot fall, 2d6 points for a 20-foot fall, and so on). This falling damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. You land in an unoccupied square of your choosing adjacent to the target, and you take falling damage as if your fall had been 10 feet shorter. You can attempt an Acrobatics check as normal to treat the fall as an additional 10 feet shorter for the purpose of determining the damage you take from the fall. If your attack misses, you land prone in a random square adjacent to the target and automatically take the full amount of falling damage.

If I lower the height of the fall for ME does it lower the damage for the target, too?

The ACTUAL distance fallen is used to determine damage for Branch Pounce... both Expert Leaper and your Skill Unlock would prevent you from taking falling damage, assuming you succeed at the appropriate Acrobatics check... and hit your target with the attack.

VoodistMonk wrote:
The ACTUAL distance fallen is used to determine damage for Branch Pounce... both Expert Leaper and your Skill Unlock would prevent you from taking falling damage, assuming you succeed at the appropriate Acrobatics check... and hit your target with the attack.

Good :) Branch Pounce wasn't part of my original plan (I just wanted to dive from above and didn't know the rules for it) but now I like it and I want to take advantage of that :D

Thanks again!!!