Hello I'm going to be starting my first Pathfinder campaign, I will be a Human Slayer and I wanted to make a dual wielding shield build. I am not looking for the most optimal build, but something fairly viable in combat would be great.
We are starting at level 1 and I am thinking of taking Improved Shield Bash and Power Attack for my first feats. But after that I am not sure which direction to go with the build, any advice or examples would be great thank you.
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I figure I should at least point you in the direction of these. ^_^
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Bravas Koros wrote: We are starting at level 1 and I am thinking of taking Improved Shield Bash and Power Attack for my first feats. I think your first 2 Feats should be Improved Shield Bash and Two Weapon Fighting.
Bravas Koros wrote: I will be a Human Slayer I think your first Slayer Talent should be Ranger Combat Style, and you should take Shield Slam. Shield Slam lets you make a free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash.
Another option is to make one of your first Feats Exotic Weapon Dwarven War Shield, or be a Dwarf instead of a Human. Half Elves can get a Free Exotic (or any) Weapon Proficiency as an Alternative Racial Trait.
Otherwise, don't use Dwarven War Shield. Use a Large Spiked Shield in your Primary hand, and a Small Spiked Shield in the other.
Bravas Koros wrote: Power Attack for my first feats. It's after getting Shield Slam that I would have you take Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Greater Bull Rush.
So, with every hit, you'll be Bull Rushing people. With Greater Bull Rush, you will also be giving all your allies Attacks of Opportunity.
After that, I'd have you take Paired Opportunist, probably via dipping a level in Cavalier, and take Paired Opportunist, so you get and AoO as well, and of course your AoO will be another Shield Slam, which will trigger another round of Attacks of Opportunity, triggering another Shield Slam, looping Attacks of Opportunity for as long as your Combat Reflexes lasts.
I love Isabelle Lee's suggestion of the Dwarven War Shield. But like other Spiked Shields, they don't do a lot of Damage, though. Slayers have a built-in Solution, though: Sneak Attack Damage.
The question now is how to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage? I think my recommendation is another 1-level dip, this time into Arcanist. It will give you a much-needed +2 to your Will Saves, and the level 0 and Level 1 Spells will be a lovely utility, as will the ability to use any Sorcerer/Wizard Wand. But the real reason I want you to dip the level is for Dimensional Slide.
Dimensional Slide is a tactical teleport with a 10' Range that can be done as part of your Move and does not end your turn the way Dimension Door does. 10' is not very much, but it will most times be all you need to achieve Flanking and lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. Bull Rushing is all about battlefield positioning, and so this ability should come in handy a alot, and the AoO loop I was talking about really works great when you are Flanking, or when you an an ally have an opponent backed against a wall or something.
I'd dip in Cavalier after getting Greater Bull Rush. I'd dip in Arcanist after getting Sneak Attack Damage.
Another Feat you have to take is Accomplished Sneak Attacker for another +1d6. I also like Spiked Destroyer.
If you like my line of thinking, I have another trick to share.
The question now is how to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage? I think my recommendation is another 1-level dip, this time into Arcanist. It will give you a much-needed +2 to your Will Saves, and the level 0 and Level 1 Spells will be a lovely utility, as will the ability to use any Sorcerer/Wizard Wand. But the real reason I want you to... These are great recommendations, this method sounds very fun. I appreciate the advice, I'd love to hear more of your ideas and tricks as well.
You could eventually get the Weapon trick feat for weapon and shield to allow taking 10 on bluff checks to feint and the enemy provokes when you feint them at level 10 if you get the two-weapon feint/improved weapon feint feats for sneak attacking. Though all of that might take more feats than you want.
Bravas Koros wrote: The question now is how to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage? I think my recommendation is another 1-level dip, this time into Arcanist. It will give you a much-needed +2 to your Will Saves, and the level 0 and Level 1 Spells will be a lovely utility, as will the ability to use any Sorcerer/Wizard Wand. But the real reason I want you to...
These are great recommendations, this method sounds very fun. I appreciate the advice, I'd love to hear more of your ideas and tricks as well.
So this character does a lot of Bull Rushing. An obvious choice for a Feat for your to take would be Spiked Destroyer. Spiked Destroyer allows you to make a successful Armor Spike Attack as a Swift Action upon a successful Bull Rush. Sadly, you only get 1 Swift Action/round.
If you take the Hamatula Strike Feat, however, you get a free Grapple check with every hit from a Piercing Weapon. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you get to do Armor Spike Damage with every Grapple Attack. And all those Attacks are eligible for Sneak Attack Damage.
To take Hamatula Strike, you have to take Improved Grapple. To take Improved Grapple, you have to take Improved Unarmed Strike. You can get Improved Unarmed Strike by dipping a level in Brawler, and if you take the Snakebite Striker Archetype, you get +1d6 Sneak Attack Damage. If you dip a level in Monk, you don't get that Sneak Attack Damage, but you get IUS and Improved Grapple as Bonus Feats.
I'm proposing a rather convoluted build, but now you get 2 Shield Bash Attacks/round (+ iteratives for high BAB), every one of those Shield Bashes turn into Bull Rushes that Provoke Attacks of Opportunity for you and all your allies, and they let you make Grapple Attacks as well that let you inflict Armor Spike Damage, and you get a Swift Action Armor Spike Attack as well that also lets you inflict Armor Spike Damage, and every time you inflict Armor Spike or Shield Spike Damage, you also can inflict Sneak Attack Damage. And so do all those Attacks of Opportunity.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Bravas Koros wrote: The question now is how to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage? I think my recommendation is another 1-level dip, this time into Arcanist. It will give you a much-needed +2 to your Will Saves, and the level 0 and Level 1 Spells will be a lovely utility, as will the ability to use any Sorcerer/Wizard Wand. But the real reason I want you to...
These are great recommendations, this method sounds very fun. I appreciate the advice, I'd love to hear more of your ideas and tricks as well.
So this character does a lot of Bull Rushing. An obvious choice for a Feat for your to take would be Spiked Destroyer. Spiked Destroyer allows you to make a successful Armor Spike Attack as a Swift Action upon a successful Bull Rush. Sadly, you only get 1 Swift Action/round.
If you take the Hamatula Strike Feat, however, you get a free Grapple check with every hit from a Piercing Weapon. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you get to do Armor Spike Damage with every Grapple Attack. And all those Attacks are eligible for Sneak Attack Damage.
To take Hamatula Strike, you have to take Improved Grapple. To take Improved Grapple, you have to take Improved Unarmed Strike. You can get Improved Unarmed Strike by dipping a level in Brawler, and if you take the Snakebite Striker Archetype, you get +1d6 Sneak Attack Damage. If you dip a level in Monk, you don't get that Sneak Attack Damage, but you get IUS and Improved Grapple as Bonus Feats.
I'm proposing a rather convoluted build, but now you get 2 Shield Bash Attacks/round (+ iteratives for high BAB), every one of those Shield Bashes turn into Bull Rushes that Provoke Attacks of Opportunity for you and all your allies, and they let you make Grapple Attacks as well that let you inflict Armor Spike Damage, and you get a Swift Action Armor Spike Attack as well that also lets you inflict Armor Spike Damage, and every time you inflict Armor Spike or Shield Spike Damage, you also can inflict Sneak Attack Damage. And so do all those Attacks of... With a character like this y'all gonna need to think up some ways to speed up your turn in combat.
Ryan Freire wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Bravas Koros wrote: The question now is how to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage? I think my recommendation is another 1-level dip, this time into Arcanist. It will give you a much-needed +2 to your Will Saves, and the level 0 and Level 1 Spells will be a lovely utility, as will the ability to use any Sorcerer/Wizard Wand. But the real reason I want you to...
These are great recommendations, this method sounds very fun. I appreciate the advice, I'd love to hear more of your ideas and tricks as well.
So this character does a lot of Bull Rushing. An obvious choice for a Feat for your to take would be Spiked Destroyer. Spiked Destroyer allows you to make a successful Armor Spike Attack as a Swift Action upon a successful Bull Rush. Sadly, you only get 1 Swift Action/round.
If you take the Hamatula Strike Feat, however, you get a free Grapple check with every hit from a Piercing Weapon. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you get to do Armor Spike Damage with every Grapple Attack. And all those Attacks are eligible for Sneak Attack Damage.
To take Hamatula Strike, you have to take Improved Grapple. To take Improved Grapple, you have to take Improved Unarmed Strike. You can get Improved Unarmed Strike by dipping a level in Brawler, and if you take the Snakebite Striker Archetype, you get +1d6 Sneak Attack Damage. If you dip a level in Monk, you don't get that Sneak Attack Damage, but you get IUS and Improved Grapple as Bonus Feats.
I'm proposing a rather convoluted build, but now you get 2 Shield Bash Attacks/round (+ iteratives for high BAB), every one of those Shield Bashes turn into Bull Rushes that Provoke Attacks of Opportunity for you and all your allies, and they let you make Grapple Attacks as well that let you inflict Armor Spike Damage, and you get a Swift Action Armor Spike Attack as well that also lets you inflict Armor Spike Damage, and every time you inflict Armor Spike or Shield Spike Damage, you also can inflict Sneak Attack Damage. ... You mean the turn will take a long time at the gaming table? Hopefully, since this character gives out attacks of opportunity, some of the long turn will be including the other PCs in the action, so the rest of the party might not feel so bad about it.
Yeah think about it.
Basic attack roll + shield damage
Bull rush check + spiked destroyer damage
Second shield attack roll + shield damage
Bull rush check
Allied attacks of opportunity
Your attack of opportunity from paired opportunists
Your grapple check from hamatula strike
Iteratives off hamatula strike.
7 to 8 instances of tossing a d20 per turn
Ryan Freire wrote: Yeah think about it.
Basic attack roll + shield damage
Bull rush check + spiked destroyer damage
Second shield attack roll + shield damage
Bull rush check
Allied attacks of opportunity
Your attack of opportunity from paired opportunists
Your grapple check from hamatula strike
Iteratives off hamatula strike.
7 to 8 instances of tossing a d20 per turn
actually its Basic attack roll + shield damage + spiked destroyer damage. you dont make a seperate check for bullrush with shield slam, it uses your attack roll from shield bash.
but then theres the other shieldslam thing "You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn."
THEN THE WHOLE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT "able to take a 5-foot step" actually means. the whole "moving with them doesnt SAY you take a 5ft step, so you still have it available and can repeat the slamming and movement madness" argument...
Name Violation wrote: THEN THE WHOLE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT "able to take a 5-foot step" actually means. the whole "moving with them doesnt SAY you take a 5ft step, so you still I was following that argument for a while. It's still raging on, isn't it?
The way I see it, the worst case scenario is that you can't follow your Bull-Rushed target if you are Bull Rushing as part of a Full Attack Action, but you can if you are Bull Rushing as part of a Standard Action Attack. But Bull Rushing via Shield Slam has the advantage of it still working even if you Bull Rush your victim into your Flanking Buddy or a brick wall or something. They get Bull Rushed, but they don't actually end up moving. Normally, you can't do the Bull Rush then at all, but with Shield Slam, you can (and they Fall Prone!). So with lucky and careful battlefield positioning, you can send your victims to the Field of the Bull Rushes again and again!
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