Talents that relate to SA when you forego SA dice / scaling


Rules Questions


So as a Phantom Thief, you forego SA.

Refined Education (Ex) wrote:


A phantom thief adds Handle Animal, Heal, Ride, Spellcraft, Survival, and all Knowledge skills to her list of class skills. Furthermore, she selects one of her rogue class skills and adds half her rogue level on all skill checks using that skill. At 3rd level and every 2 rogue levels thereafter, she selects an additional rogue class skill and adds half her rogue level on all skill checks using that skill as well. Starting at 4th level, if the phantom thief is an unchained rogue, she gains rogue’s edge skill unlocks with each of these skills rather than selecting one skill every 5 levels, and she adds half her rogue level to her number of ranks to determine when she receives a skill unlock (so a 7th level rogue (phantom thief ) with 7 ranks in a chosen skill would count as having 10 ranks and receive the second skill unlock).

This ability alters the rogue’s class skills and replaces sneak attack and trapfinding. For an unchained rogue, it also alters rogue’s edge and replaces debilitating injury.

Now, is a Phantom Thief eligible to even take something like Crippling Strike? There are other talents/examples, but this is just the first one I linked.


If you took said talent it would be wasted, you never perform sneak attacks so it never triggers.


Unless you are getting sneak attack from another source, it would be a waste of a rogue talent... while the phantom thief archetype does t prevent taking said talent and the talent itself doesn’t have a requirement of Cd6 sneak attack, you still lack the ability to actually utilize it since the talent only functions on a successful sneak attack.


Even if it would work: You would still have to figure out how to contribute in combat before level 10. Forget the situational damage spikes that sneak attack presents. Instead use your skills, feats and / or magic - phantom thief has plenty to offer. You will have to think outside the box, but coming up with something unusual but working is among the most rewarding things in a RPG, IMO.

Some ideas from another thread:

Spoiler:
Rogue (phantom thief) with Int 20. Who needs sneak attacks when you can use skills? Demoralize single targets, heal well even without a healer's kit, be party's scout, get 1+ rank in pretty much any skill - that's level 3, thanks to multiple Skill Focus feats and refined education. Later you start crafting and using magic items via UMD. If you ever make it to level 17, use Eldritch Heritage (destined) for a whopping +8 to any skill check that seems still challenging, for some reason.

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