Animal Companion, Improved Natural Attack, Evolved Companion, Improved Damage

[QueenWeab]

Hello all! I had a quick question for you. A player is currently working on building a ranger (beastmaster) with a velociraptor as the animal companion. He wants to give it improved natural attack as one of it's feats which is fine, then he also took the feat "Evolved Companion" which allows his companion to pick a 1-point evolution, he wants to take improved damage and wants all of these bonuses to apply to his talons. Now I don't see any issue with this personally, I love things like this because it's super fun. However I want to make sure it actually works with the rules.

I know the two abilities do not stack with themselves, but do they stack with one another? I can't find anything that says they don't - I just want to be sure.

[Diego Rossi]

Quote:

Improved Natural Attack

...
Prerequisites: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.

Virtual improvement in size.

Quote:

Improved Damage (Ex) (Advanced Player's Guide pg. 60): One of the eidolon's natural attacks is particularly deadly. Select one natural attack form and increase the damage die type by one step. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack.

No reference to site increases.

They should stack.

[Derklord]

"The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one."

Both are virtual size increases and thus don't stack. Indeed, everything that increases a weapon's damage dice is a size increase, even if not referring to size.

[Ryan Freire]

QueenWeab wrote:

Hello all! I had a quick question for you. A player is currently working on building a ranger (beastmaster) with a velociraptor as the animal companion. He wants to give it improved natural attack as one of it's feats which is fine, then he also took the feat "Evolved Companion" which allows his companion to pick a 1-point evolution, he wants to take improved damage and wants all of these bonuses to apply to his talons. Now I don't see any issue with this personally, I love things like this because it's super fun. However I want to make sure it actually works with the rules.

I know the two abilities do not stack with themselves, but do they stack with one another? I can't find anything that says they don't - I just want to be sure.

The two feats don't stack, but the spell strong jaw gives the 2 size increases.

[Diego Rossi]

Derklord wrote:

"The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one."

Both are virtual size increases and thus don't stack. Indeed, everything that increases a weapon's damage dice is a size increase, even if not referring to size.

Dammit!

I did know that I should have re-read that FAQ instead that going from memory.
It is one of those things where the different ways to say the same thing generates a lot of confusion.