Abusing the Family Subdomain granted power


Rules Questions


There was a little side-discussion on that power in the General Discussion subforum as part of a larger thread but I feel like it needed more attention.

So, the granted power in question reads:

Binding Ties (Su): As a standard action, you can touch an ally and remove one condition affecting the ally by transferring it to yourself. This transfer lasts a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, but you can end it as a free action on your turn. At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect. While this power is in use, the target is immune to the transferred condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Now, by the Core Rulebook, "Dead" is a condition.

We already figured out some possible abuse you could do to that power. Like, using it on a dead ally, who is now immortal for the effect's duration, since "the target is immune to the transferred condition".
Or reviving an ally that has been dead for longer than one round using breath of life.

Obviously, the possibility to remove the "dead"-condition using this power probably wasn't intended, but RAW, it is like it is.

What are your views o this? Can you think of any other funky things to do with this ability?


Perhaps this as already been addressed, but wouldn't an effect that directly applies the "dead" condition to a creature be considered a "death effect"? something that breath of life can't cure.

For example

Character A takes lethal damage and dies. The party drags the dead corpse back to town to seek out a local cleric that can cast breath of life. Character B (a cleric with Binding ties) uses it on Character A and immediately drops dead. Character A is alive for X rounds before dropping dead again and Character B comes back to life.

At no point does either character qualify as a valid target for breath of life once they get back to town. Initially character A can't be brought back because too much time has passed. After Character B does their thing they aren't eligible because they were killed by a death effect. Character A is similarly not eligible (once binding ties ends) because while they have only been dead for a short time they too are now dead because of a death effect. Healing character B back to full health while they are alive also wouldn't help as they would simply gain the "dead" anyway.

The only way this trick would work is if Character B has some way of coming back to life, thereby ending the dead condition before it can return to character A. Character A would still need to be healed or else they would die when binding ties ends and they lose immunity to the "dead condition".

At best using the ability this way is a pseudo Temporary Resurrection/gentle repose. Allowing you to use normal Resurrection spells well past their normal duration limits.


Could give a Barbarian temporary immunity to Fatigue, for rage-cycling before level 17.


LordKailas wrote:
Perhaps this as already been addressed, but wouldn't an effect that directly applies the "dead" condition to a creature be considered a "death effect"? something that breath of life can't cure.

All 'Death Effects' cause death. But not everything that causes death are 'Death Effects'.

More specifically, it has to say that it is a death effect for it to be one. CDG isn't a death effect, even though it requires a saving throw or death.


I mean it's likely to be a GM call at that point since Death effect is ill defined. It makes me wonder for instance could BoL bring someone who didn't die from Damage on a CDG but failed the save back? I mean I would think so otherwise Resurrection would be needed and that seems a bit much.

But yeah it's not a death effect as far as I can tell and from the looks of it that means if allowed you could drop dead and have someone ready to BoL you to fix a much harder condition.

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