Valet Familiar, Cooperative Crafting, and Brew Potion


Rules Questions


So I'm playing a witch and am thinking of giving my bunny familiar the valet archetype. IF I do I'll take brewpotion/Cauldron Hex.

But I'm confused with how the interaction works.

Quote:

Cooperative Crafting

Benefit: You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.

So first off... is it the familiar who is the main crafter or can my witch still be the main crafter?

When it mentions "Doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day"

Is that effectively doubling the speed I make something? Like, a potion takes 2 hours, would it take 1? (potions taking 8 hours for 1,000 takes 4?)

Does the assistant also take part of the work? So, if it goes to 1 hour of crafting, would my assistant do 30 minutes of work and I do the other 30 minutes? Or would we complete it IN 30 minutes cus we're both working on it at the same time?

Or is the crafting time assuming both are crafting at the same time?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Roco wrote:
So first off... is it the familiar who is the main crafter or can my witch still be the main crafter?

The Witch is the main crafter. The familiar is a helper.

Roco wrote:

When it mentions "Doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day"

Is that effectively doubling the speed I make something? Like, a potion takes 2 hours, would it take 1? (potions taking 8 hours for 1,000 takes 4?)

The most restrictive reading of the text would only double the amount of progress made for each full day of work (i.e. 2000 gp for a normal 8 hour day or 4 hour day at +5 DC, or 500 gp for 4 hours of work during an adventuring day).

However, logically I agree that it makes sense to divide all times in half. This only really changes the results for partial day crafting work... like most potions.

Roco wrote:

Does the assistant also take part of the work? So, if it goes to 1 hour of crafting, would my assistant do 30 minutes of work and I do the other 30 minutes? Or would we complete it IN 30 minutes cus we're both working on it at the same time?

Or is the crafting time assuming both are crafting at the same time?

Both are crafting at the same time and that's why you get twice as much done for the amount of time worked.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:


Roco wrote:

When it mentions "Doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day"

Is that effectively doubling the speed I make something? Like, a potion takes 2 hours, would it take 1? (potions taking 8 hours for 1,000 takes 4?)

The most restrictive reading of the text would only double the amount of progress made for each full day of work (i.e. 2000 gp for a normal 8 hour day or 4 hour day at +5 DC, or 500 gp for 4 hours of work during an adventuring day).

However, logically I agree that it makes sense to divide all times in half. This only really changes the results for partial day crafting work... like most potions.

Sadly, you are still limited to make only one magic item in a day.

CRB p. 549 wrote:
Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day.

A lot of GM waives that for potions and scrolls, but it is an houserule.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Diego Rossi wrote:
Sadly, you are still limited to make only one magic item in a day.

A Blackwick Cauldron can remove that limitation for potions, and there is no reason there couldn't be a similar option for scrolls or other items.

In any case, it still makes a difference whether Cooperative Crafting doubles the rate of crafting or only the daily total gp value. For example, low level potions and scrolls up to 250 gp in value typically take 2 hours to craft. Does Cooperative Crafting reduce that to 1 hour for a 250 gp item, or does the minimum remain 2 hours and Cooperative Crafting allow you to craft an item of up to 500 gp value in that time frame?

There's no clear guidance for how things like this which modify the normal crafting rules interact.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Sadly, you are still limited to make only one magic item in a day.

A Blackwick Cauldron can remove that limitation for potions, and there is no reason there couldn't be a similar option for scrolls or other items.

In any case, it still makes a difference whether Cooperative Crafting doubles the rate of crafting or only the daily total gp value. For example, low level potions and scrolls up to 250 gp in value typically take 2 hours to craft. Does Cooperative Crafting reduce that to 1 hour for a 250 gp item, or does the minimum remain 2 hours and Cooperative Crafting allow you to craft an item of up to 500 gp value in that time frame?

There's no clear guidance for how things like this which modify the normal crafting rules interact.

When not making potions or scrolls the time spent will have to be allocated in 4 hours blocks:

CRB, pag. 549 wrote:

This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work

per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price (or fraction thereof ) by
increasing the DC to create the item by +5.

...
If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.

Increasing the speed taking a +5 to DC increases the speed, cooperative crafting increase the gp of items created while crafting, but you are still spending the time in 4 hours increments.

So if you have the valet familiar and cooperative crafting you can make up to 1.000 gp of items in 4 hours or up to 2.000 gp of items in 8 hours.
If you take the +5 to DC you accelerate the production, but you are still forced to use 4 hours increments, so it becomes: you can make up to 2.000 gp of items in 4 hours or up to 4.000 gp of items in 8 hours.
It is a bit unusual as it broke the Pathfinder general rule that multiple doublings stacks and don't multiply each other, but it affect two different things. One double the gp of items produced in a unit of time, the other halves the unit of time.
So far I haven't meet anyone doing that in a game where I am the GM, I am not sure I will allow him to get a 4.000 gp of items made ina day e probably will limit him to 3.000.

When making potion or scrolls up to 250 gp of value a "unit of time" is 2 hours. There is no rule to reduce it, so you can't reduce it.

Quote:

Potions

and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little
as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less).

A very specific and vell define exception.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Sadly, you are still limited to make only one magic item in a day.

A Blackwick Cauldron can remove that limitation for potions, and there is no reason there couldn't be a similar option for scrolls or other items.

Balance wise, Brew potion is the weakest of the crafting feats and giving it some extra hoomp isn't a problem. Scrolls and other items don't have that problem, especially miscellaneous items, so giving it that benefit is way more unbalancing.

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