Dimension door, immune to what?


Rules Discussion


In p2 the dimension door spell says under the heightened section, "You are temporarily immune for 1 hour" immune to what? The spell itself, is this an hour cool down?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yeah, the spell itself.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Exactly.


That's some bad wording. And I'm having trouble coming up with when you would want to use this heightened version.

I mean I can come up with cases. Like you've been to a place in the past, and now there are enemies inside or traps, or a danger, and you want to bypass that to go to a specific location inside....and then your stuck inside and have to manage to get out without the spell.

I mean maybe that's acceptable, but it just seems weird.


Claxon wrote:

That's some bad wording. And I'm having trouble coming up with when you would want to use this heightened version.

I mean I can come up with cases. Like you've been to a place in the past, and now there are enemies inside or traps, or a danger, and you want to bypass that to go to a specific location inside....and then your stuck inside and have to manage to get out without the spell.

I mean maybe that's acceptable, but it just seems weird.

Escape to prepared safe spot or go back to dungeon entrance.


Claxon wrote:

That's some bad wording. And I'm having trouble coming up with when you would want to use this heightened version.

I mean I can come up with cases. Like you've been to a place in the past, and now there are enemies inside or traps, or a danger, and you want to bypass that to go to a specific location inside....and then your stuck inside and have to manage to get out without the spell.

I mean maybe that's acceptable, but it just seems weird.

You never used Town Portal?


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Basically they were trying to make sure Dim Door could be either used for a sudden invasion or a sudden retreat, but not both in one mission.


Claxon wrote:
And I'm having trouble coming up with when you would want to use this heightened version.

I don't.

Dimension door isn't just a spell to use for tactical movement. It's also a retreat spell, or "fleeing" if you will.

The "to a clear space within range you can see" is a significant restriction. In many many cases, a monster (or a hero, but let's be honest - heroes often win, monsters often lose) simply cannot use the level 4 version of the spell to put a meaningful distance between itself and the heroes.

Dungeons seldom offer longer sight lines than what a creature can cover in one round, and offer no protection at all against ranged attacks. At most, the spell lets you move 120 feet in two actions, starting a chase. If there's even one hero that's faster than you, the spell doesn't offer much of an escape at all.

The level 5 spell is a complete gamechanger in this regard. An utter transformation.

Most importantly, not having to have line of sight to your destination. That alone means you could have gone anywhere, even if you don't teleport more than 120 ft away.

The other bonus, increasing the teleport distance 44 times, is just icing on the cake. But what sweet icing it is - since it comprehensively shuts down any discussion on starting a chase.

(The heroes can still use divinations or other measures to hunt down the fleeing monster, but the encounter definitely ends. And of course, Dimensional Anchor negates the spell).

tl;dr: For heroes it's "only" a panic button that only works for the individual not the party. But that doesn't mean the heightened spell doesn't have its uses. It does offer considerable attack potential against a place you've already visited (for campaigns featuring bad guys who invite heroes to social occasions).

Cheers :)


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My character can move 250 feet in a round. An enemy teleporting only 120 feet away and remaining within line of sight isn't escaping. And we're not even at the levels where teleportation effects are a thing yet.


Yep, bad wording. Or at least, what exactly are you immune to, all uses of the spell or JUST the heightened version?


Ravingdork wrote:
My character can move 250 feet in a round.

I'm not sure how you managed an 80 foot base move speed.


Draco18s wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
My character can move 250 feet in a round.
I'm not sure how you managed an 80 foot base move speed.

Elf Monk with Ki Rush is my guess, if it's in the Tiger Stance and lvl 11 you can Ki Rush for 120ft, Wind Flow for 10ft step + 60ft movement and then a 60 ft stride. 120 + 70 + 60 = 250ft in a turn.

Or haste, at lvl 5 Ki rush + 3 strides of 50ft.

Edit... actually just use Kish Rush more than once at lvl 5... 2 of them is 200ft + 50ft of a stride. For some reason I forgot that Ki rush is a focus spell and not a flourish action.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

4th-level elf monk with ki-rush. Kyrone has the right of it: 2 ki-rushes + Stride action = 5 Stride actions.

Since I have 50 foot speed, that's 250 feet in a round.

Even without ki-rush, I can cover 150 feet, more than enough to keep up with low-level dimension door.

Since getting ki-rush at 2nd-level, I haven't used it once. :(

(We've been dungeon delving.)

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.


Ravingdork wrote:
My character can move 250 feet in a round. An enemy teleporting only 120 feet away and remaining within line of sight isn't escaping.

Something like that, yes :)

I'm guessing you're soon at the point where you can instant point in the direction of a fleeing enemy, and run a mile in like three rounds... :)

At that point, the monster needs a bigger panic button than DD :)


Tectorman wrote:
Yep, bad wording. Or at least, what exactly are you immune to, all uses of the spell or JUST the heightened version?

All uses.

Since the description doesn't specify what you're immune to, the most reasonable suggestion is "immunity to Dimension Door, the effect". (Meaning that if you somehow manage to get targeted by a Dimension Door - perhaps it's part of a unique trap or something - I'd argue you're still immune)


NielsenE wrote:
Basically they were trying to make sure Dim Door could be either used for a sudden invasion or a sudden retreat, but not both in one mission.

Yeah, that makes me not want to use it that way (for the increased spell slot).

Bear in mind that it's just you and not the whole party, so if you're teleporting in you don't have your team, and if you're teleporting out you're leaving your team behind (to die, presumably).


Claxon wrote:
NielsenE wrote:
Basically they were trying to make sure Dim Door could be either used for a sudden invasion or a sudden retreat, but not both in one mission.

Yeah, that makes me not want to use it that way (for the increased spell slot).

Bear in mind that it's just you and not the whole party, so if you're teleporting in you don't have your team, and if you're teleporting out you're leaving your team behind (to die, presumably).

In this use case, they are most likely already dead.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Felt it was more on the NPC side than the PC side, or even more on the world-building narrative side. An assassin type character able to dim door in and out at fairly medium levels creates a very broken world if you work through the ramifications. Ditto for armies of mid-level demons who are able to jump that distance in and out, or in and further in, etc.

On the PC side it still is relevant for making sure there's more to hit & run tactics than splitting the party and having as man people as possible dim door in for a round and back out the next round. Using dimdoor to get an 'inside team' in place to take out a critical guard and open the gate is viable, etc. It makes plans viable/interesting w/o becoming an 'I win' card.


Porting out to get stuff or reinforcements was more common in older games.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Zapp wrote:
Tectorman wrote:
Yep, bad wording. Or at least, what exactly are you immune to, all uses of the spell or JUST the heightened version?

All uses.

Since the description doesn't specify what you're immune to, the most reasonable suggestion is "immunity to Dimension Door, the effect". (Meaning that if you somehow manage to get targeted by a Dimension Door - perhaps it's part of a unique trap or something - I'd argue you're still immune)

Specifically, the rules for temporary immunity on are page 453. I mention this because I didn't know they were there.

Pathfinder CRB wrote:

Some effects grant you immunity to the same effect for a set amount of time. If an effect grants you temporary immunity, repeated applications of that effect don’t affect you for as long as the temporary immunity lasts. Unless the effect says it applies only to a certain creature’s ability, it doesn’t matter who created the effect. For example, the blindness spell says, “The target is temporarily immune to blindness for 1 minute.” If anyone casts blindness on that creature again before 1 minute passes, the spell has no effect.

Temporary immunity doesn’t prevent or end ongoing effects of the source of the temporary immunity. For instance, if an ability makes you frightened and you then gain temporary immunity to the ability, you don’t immediately lose the frightened condition due to the immunity you just gained—you simply don’t become frightened if you’re targeted by the ability again before the immunity ends.


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Claxon wrote:
NielsenE wrote:
Basically they were trying to make sure Dim Door could be either used for a sudden invasion or a sudden retreat, but not both in one mission.

Yeah, that makes me not want to use it that way (for the increased spell slot).

Bear in mind that it's just you and not the whole party, so if you're teleporting in you don't have your team, and if you're teleporting out you're leaving your team behind (to die, presumably).

I've seen characters use it a few times while holding off an enemy to allow your allies to escape. Or depending on group composition, you might all need to employ different options to escape and reconvene later. Ragingdork's monk can outrun trouble, a rogue could sneak away, and a bard can dimension door.

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