How do spells affect a power armor user?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Hunting around a bit for the consensus on this one, flight and haste not working would make sense but what about the other way around then?

Would slow affect a power armor user? If Haste would be overwritten by the power armor, would slow also be overwritten? Would you not get the speed increase/decrease but still get the extra move action/staggered condition

Would the second level of fly work because it notes an object? But would this also mean that enemies can treat you as an object in the case of telekinesis?

Would class features also not work? Would a solarion with defy gravity float weightlessly inside the armor's cockpit? But if you cannot affect your armor with your own class features would that mean that you would not be able to be blinded or affected by specific effects? You wouldn't be looking at the source with your own eyes. Same thing with Debris field, would you just have a load of junk floating around you while handling delicate controls?

Would a caster be unable to use spells like mystic cure because he is not touching the target with his/her own digits?

Would the gravitational harness only make you weightless and not your armor, because that would make the augment completely useless for any user. Or would it only apply when using armor of your own size?

How about armor upgrades? You can wear light armor under it and use the better KAC/EAC bonus, but does this also apply to upgrades?

The list goes on.

How have you guys handled this during your own games? Were you selective? Denied or allowed everything? It's horribly confusing.


I'd expect it's still just armor, and treat it as such.
It does add a layer of weird subtleties and what-ifs, but in the absence of any other indications... I'll treat it like any other armor.

For example, I don't suppose mittens would stop mystic cure, so I'm not going to say an armored gauntlet would either. Even a big one.
If they were vehicles, like the mechs some people dream of, then sure... But powered armor is, well, armor.
It gets weird when you get to huge and above, but the rules are the same.

The one interrogation I do have is the Powered+Light, with regards to upgrades. I can't imagine you just get to double stack the slots, but it'd be nice to be sure. It's already been discussed a bunch, but I don't really remember a clear consensus.. Been a while though.


Richter Harding wrote:
still get the extra move action/staggered condition

This would be how haste/slow work on a targe tin power armor.

Otherwise I tend to treat power armor exactly like normal armor. Armor upgrades on a suit underneath do not work while in the armor.

Force soles/other not quite flight but similar effects haven't come up yet, but I lean towards permissive.


I'm in the "light armor upgrades still work unless there's an obvious reason they shouldn't" camp. If they interact with or protect you, they work. If they interact with the outside world (through your power armor) they don't.


By the rules as written, power armor is essentially a vehicle with its own speed; the armor's movement totally replaces the character's. Unless the spells can affect the armor itself, they do not affect someone wearing power armor. You can't haste armor any more than you can haste a car.


Dracomicron wrote:
By the rules as written, power armor is essentially a vehicle with its own speed; the armor's movement totally replaces the character's. Unless the spells can affect the armor itself, they do not affect someone wearing power armor. You can't haste armor any more than you can haste a car.

I assume I'm not the only person that mostly disagrees with this.

Its not a vehicle. Wearing it overwrites the character's base move speed with its own speed. That's it. It doesn't prevent increases to speed, magical flight, decreases to speed, etc, any more than any other armor would.


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Dracomicron wrote:
By the rules as written, power armor is essentially a vehicle with its own speed; the armor's movement totally replaces the character's. Unless the spells can affect the armor itself, they do not affect someone wearing power armor. You can't haste armor any more than you can haste a car.

Pretty sure it's still just armor and not a vehicle.

Otherwise it would be in the vehicle section and not the armor section.

The person inside is definitely affected by spells of course. They don't have total cover. Whether move speed affecting spells affect the armor or just the person inside is a table variation.


Dracomicron wrote:
By the rules as written, power armor is essentially a vehicle with its own speed; the armor's movement totally replaces the character's. Unless the spells can affect the armor itself, they do not affect someone wearing power armor. You can't haste armor any more than you can haste a car.

No. The rules are absolutely NOT written that way. At all. That is not the rules saying that. That is one of your arguments saying that. The two are far from synonymous.


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Okay, I was exaggerating to some extent about it being a vehicle, but I did have a point.

Quote:
Rather than using your normal speed, the powered armor has a maximum land speed of its own. In some cases, powered armor has additional movement types as well.

The armor has the speed, you don't. The armor doesn't give YOU its speed, it chugs along at its own speed like a vehicle would, bringing you along for the ride.

If you are the recipient of Haste, you can get the extra move action, but the armor is a different entity than yourself and is not a creature (i.e. the only thing Haste can target), therefore it cannot get the movement speed bonus from Haste. Similarly, your Blitz Soldier or augmetic legs don't improve the armor's speed, because they enhance you, not the machine.

There is a specific bonus as a 9th level Power Armor Jockey to increase your armor's land speed by 10', up to your normal land speed. Anything that doesn't have that kind of rider, and doesn't mention affecting armor or non-creature items, I don't think affects power armor speed. If it did, it would basically make that archetype bonus pointless.


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Dracomicron wrote:

Okay, I was exaggerating to some extent about it being a vehicle, but I did have a point.

Quote:
Rather than using your normal speed, the powered armor has a maximum land speed of its own. In some cases, powered armor has additional movement types as well.

The armor has the speed, you don't. The armor doesn't give YOU its speed, it chugs along at its own speed like a vehicle would, bringing you along for the ride.

If you are the recipient of Haste, you can get the extra move action, but the armor is a different entity than yourself and is not a creature (i.e. the only thing Haste can target), therefore it cannot get the movement speed bonus from Haste. Similarly, your Blitz Soldier or augmetic legs don't improve the armor's speed, because they enhance you, not the machine.

There is a specific bonus as a 9th level Power Armor Jockey to increase your armor's land speed by 10', up to your normal land speed. Anything that doesn't have that kind of rider, and doesn't mention affecting armor or non-creature items, I don't think affects power armor speed. If it did, it would basically make that archetype bonus pointless.

Straight speed value this is true. Additional move actions (like envoy's hurry) you still get, and can still take with power armor.

Just about in every other way, power armor behaves like armor.


Garretmander wrote:

Straight speed value this is true. Additional move actions (like envoy's hurry) you still get, and can still take with power armor.

Just about in every other way, power armor behaves like armor.

I should have been more clear that I was only talking about movement.

Also the Fly spell only works up to the 2nd level (aka Levitate) on power armor, and only on armor of 10 bulk or less, because you can only affect objects with those levels; higher levels affect creatures. You also can't really use your own alternate movement styles on armor, which is why there's such a variety of move types on the various armors.


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Dracomicron wrote:


The armor has the speed, you don't. The armor doesn't give YOU its speed, it chugs along at its own speed like a vehicle would, bringing you along for the ride.

See, my main problem with this is that it starts to break down other parts of the game.

I guess power armor makes the 'pilot' immune to the movement portions of slow (following that, I'd make a case for complete immunity to the spell. You can't slow down my armor, so why is it staggered?)

Can't Entangle (or entangle, for the non-magic usage) a set of PA either.

Full speed up a 120 degree incline.

Hell, armor doesn't need to make acrobatics checks, guess a narrow ledge is as easy for armor to walk across as a nice flat field.

Things like this are why Power Armor is just Armor, that happens to modify your speed.


Pantshandshake wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:


The armor has the speed, you don't. The armor doesn't give YOU its speed, it chugs along at its own speed like a vehicle would, bringing you along for the ride.

See, my main problem with this is that it starts to break down other parts of the game.

I guess power armor makes the 'pilot' immune to the movement portions of slow (following that, I'd make a case for complete immunity to the spell. You can't slow down my armor, so why is it staggered?)

Can't Entangle (or entangle, for the non-magic usage) a set of PA either.

Full speed up a 120 degree incline.

Hell, armor doesn't need to make acrobatics checks, guess a narrow ledge is as easy for armor to walk across as a nice flat field.

Things like this are why Power Armor is just Armor, that happens to modify your speed.

I don't think that follows. The armor having a separate speed doesn't affect you needing to make an acrobatics check at all, or give you immunity to Staggered from Slow. The Entangled condition doesn't mention it affecting a "creature," just says what happens to "you." There's an argument that you don't move half speed while entangled. That's about it.

Despite my glib comment earlier, the armor otherwise follows normal movement rules, so I'm not sure where you get the 120 degree incline bit... I mean wouldn't vehicles go slower driving up a ramp, too? I know my Subaru does.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Just did another read of the flight spell, and using the second level on power armor doesn't work.

It only works on UNATTENDED objects, and piloted power armor surely does not count as such.

The first level would arguably work because it just states creature or object.

This is of course if the armor is indeed a seperate entity from it's pilot, wich is up for debate.


Richter Harding wrote:

Just did another read of the flight spell, and using the second level on power armor doesn't work.

It only works on UNATTENDED objects, and piloted power armor surely does not count as such.

The first level would arguably work because it just states creature or object.

This is of course if the armor is indeed a seperate entity from it's pilot, wich is up for debate.

There's no debate there, its not. Its equipment you wear. It's not prviding you a plus 4 cover bonus, its not blocking line of effect, it doesn't have its own HP pool that someone has to go through to get to you etc.

because one narrow band of effect MIGHT not work on it the same way it might not work on another creature (speed boosting effects) is absolutely not a reason to fly down the rabbit hole with that paradigm.


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You are the armor, the armor is you, just like second skin.

It gives some other bonuses and changes your size as well, but it is still you. All of it is you, even when gargantuan.

A little odd that someone stabbing the foot of your giant robot can drop you down to 0 HP and kill you? Yeah, probably. But it's armor, like any other.


Dracomicron wrote:


Despite my glib comment earlier, the armor otherwise follows normal movement rules, so I'm not sure where you get the 120 degree incline bit... I mean wouldn't vehicles go slower driving up a ramp, too? I know my Subaru does.

This is my point, entirely. Sure, if you point your Subaru at a ramp, give it a little gas, and let it coast, it'll slow down, unless you apply a gradually increasing amount of acceleration to keep the speed steady, or more to speed up.

We don't really have that nuance in Starfinder. Nor did a quick spin through the vehicle rules imply that they cannot move their full 'speed' (movement) up any sort of hill.

"Your armor works like a vehicle" impacts SO many rules in such weird ways that it can't possibly be how its supposed to work. I'd probably need a spreadsheet to track how that entire ball of interactions would work. If I have to do that amount of work just arrive at "Well, hell, this doesn't really make sense" then I probably read the directions wrong, ya dig?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So if it's just equipment you wear does this mean any movement altering effect after the armor do work? Because that would make this a lot easier,

If you go by the most literal reading the rules for power armor do state that the only things replaced are : Strength and base land speed, but a halflings little strix wings lifting a large suit of power armor kinda snap the supsension of disbelief in half.


Richter Harding wrote:

So if it's just equipment you wear does this mean any movement altering effect after the armor do work? Because that would make this a lot easier,

If you go by the most literal reading the rules for power armor do state that the only things replaced are : Strength and base land speed, but a halflings little strix wings lifting a large suit of power armor kinda snap the supsension of disbelief in half.

Before going down that rabbit hole, consider that if the armor replaces your movement, and you have a fly speed of 30, and the armor has a fly speed of "baby grand piano" that while in the armor you have a fly speed of baby grand piano

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Richter Harding wrote:

So if it's just equipment you wear does this mean any movement altering effect after the armor do work? Because that would make this a lot easier,

If you go by the most literal reading the rules for power armor do state that the only things replaced are : Strength and base land speed, but a halflings little strix wings lifting a large suit of power armor kinda snap the supsension of disbelief in half.

Before going down that rabbit hole, consider that if the armor replaces your movement, and you have a fly speed of 30, and the armor has a fly speed of "baby grand piano" that while in the armor you have a fly speed of baby grand piano

That's actually one of the biggest questions I have, do activated features overwrite the armor? So normally you have no fly speed, but you activate your gravity harness, defy gravity, fly etc.

You normally do not have access to this form of movement but does outside interference grant you the ability to do so? Wich essentially boils down to, is your armor a seperate entity and those effects do not function or it is just armor and those effects function as normal.

Depending on the answer being just armor and no other questions are needed or, those effects do not work. But if those effects do not work, does this mean for example that touch spells don't work.


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Richter Harding wrote:


Depending on the answer being just armor and no other questions are needed or, those effects do not work. But if those effects do not work, does this mean for example that touch spells don't work.

I think its a mistake to assume that there is one perfectly consistent paradigm that will function in all circumstances .

Clearly there's no point in forbidding a jetpack on heavy armor if you can just slap a jetpack on your second skin skivies and fly the armor around. And clearly you don't gain 100% concealment and cover from being power armor. So neither paradigm is going to work, and you need to figure things out almost on a case by case basis.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

My apologies for the wall of text and any errors that may be in this post.

While this is rather fair, it also leaves things open to extremely large amounts of GM variation, but you are right, a perfect solution does not exist atm.

Exceptions will always be a thing, without a 'Rule 1' for power armor, doing it on a case by case basis would slow down tables by an immense amount.
Agreement can be a rare thing in TRPG's.

I would like to try and identify this 'Rule 1' so that in every case where there is doubt if something works, you can go back to 'Rule1' and go on from there.

Using the Haste circuit as an example of my argument.

argument:
Haste does not grant a movement speed buff to a power armor user as the armor has it's own movespeed, it does grant an extra move action as per the spell.

Haste circuit is an armor upgrade, it is part of the armor itself, therefore it should be able to increase the armor's speed.

A different example would be the Augmented archetype's level 9 class feature, namely the strength and dex augments.

Overclocked Systems (Ex) - 9th Level
The fusion between your natural form and your augmentations surpasses either’s intended limits. As a swift action, you can spend 1 Resolve Point to choose one personal upgrade you have and gain a temporary benefit based on the ability score it augments. The benefit increases based on the model type, treating mk 1 as 1, mk 2 as 2, and mk 3 as 3 for the purpose of calculating the effect. At 13th level you can gain the associated benefits for two of your personal upgrades, and at 17th level you can gain the associated benefits for up to three of your personal upgrades. These benefits last for a number of rounds equal to your character level.

Strength: You gain a circumstance bonus equal to your Strength upgrade’s model to all Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks and ability checks. Reduce your armor check penalty by an amount equal to your model type (minimum 0).

Dexterity: Each of your modes of movement increases by an amount equal to 10 ft. × your Dexterity upgrade’s model, to a maximum of twice your normal speed for each.

My argument would be that the strength one does not work in case of strength checks because the armor replaces your strength score with it's own, the bonus on dex checks is unaffected because the armor rules do not change anything there.

The Dex augment does not influence the ground speed of the armor as it modifies your own speed, it would also not increase the speed of a flight frame as it only affects your own speed, such as wings or a fly spell.

It would work on something similar to an gravitational harness, as that grant weightlessness and a flight speed to the user and everything he is carrying. And due to the flight speed coming from the pilot itself, it would be modified by the class feature.

Due to it's precise wording it encompasses both the user and their armor, rendering it one of the few exceptions in this case.

The idea here is that if an effect is part of or encompasses the armor it would function, the aformentioned 'Rule 1' I myself support.

Now I want to stress, opinions and interpetations can differ, so I fully understand not agreeing with this. But this is an example of a specific option needing a discussion to understand it.

I am hoping that by doing it here, it can quicken any discussions players and GM's may have on the subject of power armor.

The more options we cover here, the more resources and information the community will have, at least until a decisive FAQ comes by.


Re: Move speed (spoilered for ease of reading)

Spoiler:
Character speed is either 0-29, or 31-infinity. Put on a battle harness, the character’s base speed is now set to 30. Any temporary effect that modifies speed now works from that number (30 ft.)

This has 2 positive effects. 1, everything that modifies speeds in the game still works. There’s no set of extra rules figuring out what works or doesn’t on a set of PA. 2, it avoids a conversation that includes “Ok, you explain to me how it makes sense that things that increase my speed don’t work, but things that decrease my speed do work.”

For non-land speeds, I’d probably say flight with non-magical (or non-enhanced) wings is a no go, but a magically enhanced flight speed, or a technologic flight system, would work fine. Same thing for swimming, your Kalo’s membrane fins aren’t going to help you, but externally sourced swimming systems are fine.

Re: Ability Scores (also spoilered)

Spoiler:

Strength: Basically the same thing: If we can agree that the PA’s strength score is immutable, then it’s fine the way it is. However, something working the way the above example is written (adding a modifier to skill or ability checks, rather than “+2 to strength”) ought to work. Conceptually, you’re just using leverage, or it’s easier to carry a big rock when you have metal hands instead of flesh hands, as opposed to ‘nope, got stronger.’ Similarly, something like a backpack that effects your strength but only in terms of how your carrying capacity in bulk is calculated should also work.

Dex: You really tied a dexterity example right into movement speed. In your example, I say it works fine, because of my above points regarding move speed.

Basically, I’m generally going to come down on whichever side seems like more things continue to work (because that’s probably the most correct option) or at least whichever side needs less house rules in order to work.


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Pantshandshake wrote:

Re: Move speed (spoilered for ease of reading)

** spoiler omitted **

Re: Ability Scores (also spoilered)
** spoiler omitted **

Basically, I’m generally going to come down on whichever side seems like more things continue to work (because that’s probably the most correct option) or at least whichever side needs less house rules in order to work.

I am very confused by your move speed idea. What do you count in the character's move speed, and what do you count as able to benefit the armor?

Nuar get +10' move speed. Blitz Soldiers get +10' move speed. Leg augmentations can give up to +30'. Do all of those work with power armor? Because that doesn't seem right. Being personally really fast wouldn't change how fast the armor's motorized servos can go.


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Dracomicron wrote:


Nuar get +10' move speed. Blitz Soldiers get +10' move speed. Leg augmentations can give up to +30'. Do all of those work with power armor? Because that doesn't seem right. Being personally really fast wouldn't change how fast the armor's motorized servos can go.

But spells effect you and your gear, its why a flight spell cast on you doesn't leave a pair of nike's on the ground when you take off and you don't need to get naked to be invisible. In the d20 magic system you and your stuff are linked.


Correct!

Basically, I see it as the PA’s speed overwriting whatever was in your speed box before. It could have been 5 ft/rnd, it could have been 150 ft/rnd.

Where we diverge is that I don’t see why that new base speed can’t be changed temporarily by external effects, whether increased or decreased.

Allow me to expound.
Athletics check: A successful check allows you to move at half your land speed across such a surface. The way I see it, this still happens. If PA speed can never be modified, then I make a check to move half my speed across a narrow surface but I move my speed anyway.

Entangle: This has a host of things it does to the target. The way I see it, it works the same on PA. However, if the PA speed cannot be changed, then the target can’t be ‘entangled.’ So at the least they’re ignoring the move speed penalty, and with enough arguing, why wouldn’t they ignore the condition entirely? If you can’t slow me down, why am I taking a penalty on an attack roll?

I could go on, but my basic point is this: Deciding that PA move speed becomes your new move speed and can be interacted with just like any other move speed preserves rules interactions and prevents very strange occurrences in a whole host of instances, while only maybe-breaking the maybe-rule that PA speed cannot be changed. Deciding that PA speed cannot be interacted with means anyone who wears PA is going to have to sit their GM down and bring out a pamphlet of “These things all change your speed along with other impacts, here’s why I think if my speed doesn’t change, then these other impacts shouldn’t happen, or should be mitigated.”

I'm basically arguing from a "My way cuts down on weird rules interactions, limits (if not eliminates) new house rules, and limits (if not removes) the opportunity for rules enthusiasts to make new cases for yet more things interacting oddly" stance.


I can get onboard with external effects affecting the armor speed, but that still leaves a lot of room to argue and nitpick about what applies and what does not. If Haste affects the movement speed, then why wouldn't my Blitz Soldier ability? Both are just some variation on "I go faster."

Silver Crusade

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My thanks to Pantshandshake for compressing my post.

So it would come down to the power armor just replacing a set number of statistics of your character while magic and specifically worded abilities and equipment that come after you don the armor would function.

If I understand this correctly I would agree it is the best solution.

As for an argument as to why haste would work but speed suspension and the blitz soldier ability would not.

External effects could modify your speed because they come after the armor, blitz and speed suspension would not work because they already applied to your character and so would be counted as your 'normal speed'.

To quote the section itself.

Speed
Rather than using your normal speed, the powered armor has a maximum land speed of its own. In some cases, powered armor has additional movement types as well.

This is also supported by one of the newer archetypes granting a movement speed boost that only functions in powered armor.


Magic is magic, magic supersedes anything else because it is magic. Magic breaks the "rules". You your speed is limited by your armor (and yes, PA is armor), magic makes it go faster or slower, why because it is magic. Just as your bones and muscle don't explode when under haste, same with PA.

PA armor is armor, like any armor, the armor is considered part of you. Anything that effect you effects the armor.

Additionally, for things like Blitz Soldier skills. I would assume the Blitz Soldier is proficient in Power Armor? So yes the Blitz soldier because they are proficient in PA, can "make their PA go faster" because of their skill.

Try not to overthink it, it is a fantasy game


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Dracomicron wrote:
I can get onboard with external effects affecting the armor speed, but that still leaves a lot of room to argue and nitpick about what applies and what does not. If Haste affects the movement speed, then why wouldn't my Blitz Soldier ability? Both are just some variation on "I go faster."

Richter kind of hit the nail on the head.

There's a box, with your speed, on the character sheet. There's all sorts of things that add or subtract numbers from this box.

Putting on a set of PA basically takes that whole calculation, then adds a "Multiply by zero, then add (whatever speed the PA has)" to it.

This takes care of all the questions, nitpicks, abilities, tech, implants, edge cases, etc, by simply making the sweeping statement of "PA says its speed becomes your new speed, so that's what happens."

This new number is now just your base speed, and can be interacted with, positively or negatively, as usual.

So, if you're stacking Blitz Soldier, speed suspensions, speed increasing cybernetics, or what have you, they all get overwritten. This preserves the "Speed" rules in the PA section, should answer the majority of questions about what can effect your speed rating, and allows for your new speed to be effected by whatever magic, environmental, or gadget-based speed enhancements or restrictions exist in the game.

I don't know if this is the 'right' way to do it, silence from Paizo being the norm and all. All I can say is that running it in this manner keeps the 'work' needed to run/play the game at the default level.


That's reasonable (and pretty close to how I have been playing it). There's a player in my local area that assumed that the power armor's speed is just the maximum speed the player character can go, and was stacking move bonuses in order to hit that sweet 60' move speed in the Celerity Rigging, but also assumed that all of his other movement modes also worked with it.

Tried to tell him it didn't work like that, but he was certain of his reading.


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I can honestly say that's the first time I've heard that interpretation. It's probably more wrong than I how I think it works?

I don't know, I'm not super thrilled that I have to make a Venn Diagram between "What makes sense?" and "What makes the least amount of changes to the game?" to try and figure out an efficient way to make a thing work that's been in the game SINCE LAUNCH PAIZO, but that's where we seem to have landed.

On a sidenote, things like this are why I don't GM Starfinder anymore, and why my circle of friends who even want to play it keeps shrinking. At this point I just make sure I know the rules for the soldier I play (aside from power armor) and I try to internalize the rules for my backup character, a Kayal Shadow Mystic I'm still building.


Pantshandshake wrote:

I can honestly say that's the first time I've heard that interpretation. It's probably more wrong than I how I think it works?

I don't know, I'm not super thrilled that I have to make a Venn Diagram between "What makes sense?" and "What makes the least amount of changes to the game?" to try and figure out an efficient way to make a thing work that's been in the game SINCE LAUNCH PAIZO, but that's where we seem to have landed.

On a sidenote, things like this are why I don't GM Starfinder anymore, and why my circle of friends who even want to play it keeps shrinking. At this point I just make sure I know the rules for the soldier I play (aside from power armor) and I try to internalize the rules for my backup character, a Kayal Shadow Mystic I'm still building.

My home game players largely don't care about the niggling rules specifics, and since I can modify the difficulty on the fly it's less of an issue than just having a ridiculous starfindery good time.

The local Starfinder Society players for the most part just gravitate to less questionable play styles, for the most part.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dracomicron wrote:
Pantshandshake wrote:

I can honestly say that's the first time I've heard that interpretation. It's probably more wrong than I how I think it works?

I don't know, I'm not super thrilled that I have to make a Venn Diagram between "What makes sense?" and "What makes the least amount of changes to the game?" to try and figure out an efficient way to make a thing work that's been in the game SINCE LAUNCH PAIZO, but that's where we seem to have landed.

On a sidenote, things like this are why I don't GM Starfinder anymore, and why my circle of friends who even want to play it keeps shrinking. At this point I just make sure I know the rules for the soldier I play (aside from power armor) and I try to internalize the rules for my backup character, a Kayal Shadow Mystic I'm still building.

My home game players largely don't care about the niggling rules specifics, and since I can modify the difficulty on the fly it's less of an issue than just having a ridiculous starfindery good time.

The local Starfinder Society players for the most part just gravitate to less questionable play styles, for the most part.

I think this kind of suggests that "Is unable to have fun if there is ambiguity in the rules" is more of a group problem than a system problem. . .


Maybe. Maybe not. I have a ton of fun playing Starfinder, because I don't also need to be an arbiter for a bunch of broken rules. I don't really enjoy arguing with my GM, and so far there's been enough in the game where I generally don't need to argue with him.

But its pretty ridiculous that we're still trying to figure out how Power Armor fully works. It's been... what, 2 and half years now? Arguing about rules is a time honored tradition. Wondering if the game will legally be able to buy porn before Paizo answers a g@$+!*n question is a pretty new experience, and not everyone likes it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Considering they suddenly did a 180 on PF1 needing a final additional resources update, we might have to wait a long time.

Using the ruling we just deliberated on opens up the playstyle until we get a concrete answer.

I for one will advocate on using this ruling for my local area.


Dracomicron wrote:
There's a player in my local area that assumed that the power armor's speed is just the maximum speed the player character can go, and was stacking move bonuses in order to hit that sweet 60' move speed in the Celerity Rigging, but also assumed that all of his other movement modes also worked with it.

Don't start agreeing with me now, as soon as you do we're going to find out the above was correct all along and we're all going to feel so, so bad about ourselves.


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Pantshandshake wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
There's a player in my local area that assumed that the power armor's speed is just the maximum speed the player character can go, and was stacking move bonuses in order to hit that sweet 60' move speed in the Celerity Rigging, but also assumed that all of his other movement modes also worked with it.
Don't start agreeing with me now, as soon as you do we're going to find out the above was correct all along and we're all going to feel so, so bad about ourselves.

If that was correct all along it's Paizo that should feel bad about themselves, you're fine.

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