Fabricate + Eschew Mats or False Focus

Rules Questions

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Ok. So I know the spell says "take one type of thing and make something out of it"...

However, both of these feats allow you 1gp and 100gp effectively "free" material components. So what is the limit when using these free material components?

Can I, for instance, use False Focus to create 100gp diamond(s x3?).

Can i, for instance, eschew materials to make a club out of thin air?

Curious, as the feat basically allows any material component to be "free".

Thoughts... Thoughts on how broken this is?

Ps. False Focus directly affects 60 spells level 0-8, so it sort of matters, if daily casings can be used to combine to affect others as well (combine 5 castings worth of diamonds with another one for a limited wish component, etc...)

Scarab Sages

They're not free components they're an effective limit of how much components you can ignore/substitute.

False Focus
By using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component.

Eschew Materials
You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.

You can't create anything by using these abilities you just don't need them. Eschew materials is basically a way to dump the bat guano, cat hair and other bits and pieces that don't cost much. False focus and mythic eschew materials are way's for you to ignore larger costs.

You can't use false focus to create 100GP diamonds.
You can't use eschew materials to materialize a club.

I don't consider it broken at all most spells are either covered by eschew materials and a spell component pouch does the same thing or cost significantly more up to tens of thousands of gold in some cases.

maouse33 is asking about using them with Fabricate.

Under normal circumstances Fabricate would let you turn 15gp worth of Iron into a longsword. The question is, can you still cast the spell using false focus or eschew materials to make a permanent long sword out of thin air for free.

to answer the OPs question. A DM shouldn't allow you to do this even if the rules seem to indicate that you can. This is because infinite money breaks pathfinder. This is less of an issue with editions of D&D where you can't just purchase or build whatever magic items you want.

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Fabricate wrote:
The quality of items made by this spell is commensurate with the quality of material used as the basis for the new fabrication.

The quality of the material is "non-existent", so the quality of the item made would be "non-existent".

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The answer is actually in the target section of the spell. The material component for Fabricate is also the target for the spell, if you ignore the material component the spell has no target and as such no item is created from the material.

So, No. You can not use Eschew Materials or False Focus to remove the cost of Fabricate.

One could argue that if using False Focus, that you could cast the spell on the holy symbol itself, thus making an item out of your holy symbol, but that would in turn destroy your holy symbol...

There are two additional spells of note when it comes to this general subject, though they are significantly less famous and less likely to come up at any given table.

Serren's Swift Girding will have a very odd interaction with False Focus, given the spell's awkward design. Since this is a spell where, by RAW, it should be simultaneously putting a suit of armor on a creature AND utterly destroying and consuming that exact same suit of armor. Adding False Focus into the mix would then either A enable duplication of (cheap) armor by having the original armor *not* be destroyed by the spell or B. be required to use the spell at all as intended.

The simplest, most elegant fix, would be to just houserule that the spell just doesn't have material components, especially since this is what basically everyone who has ever actually used the spell does anyway even if they weren't consciously aware of it. This would address both the potential to combine it with False Focus to duplicate armor AND making it so that the spell actually functions properly.

If the exploit is allowed to go through, the extent to which it could be broken is only limited by the party's ability to acquire low level spellcasters to "industrialize" casting the spell, the amount of time the party has to go through with the loop, and how much of the resulting duplicated armor they could actually sell.

The fact that it's a first level spell and thus a lot of NPCs could get brought into the scheme is probably the most notable part of the exploit and the thing that would allow it to really become an issue.

Create Armaments is pretty ironclad in that it will let you create something out of nothing when using False Focus, since the focus is substituting for raw monetary value in diamonds.

That is a level 4+ spell slot to create something that is worth up to 100 gp and can only be sold for half, though, barring a Spiritualist for whom it is a 3rd level spell. So it has a lot less potential to be broken compared to Swift Girding, given the relative scarcity of higher level spell slots. It can still add up to a significant degree given any kind of real stretch of downtime, though.

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