Grapple / Dirty trick Slayer(Bounty Hunter)


Advice


Bounty Hunter slayer archetype is focusing on nonletal damage, and debuffing by ditry tricks due to second level ability. On 6 level bounty hunter gain a submission hold, that can be good for nonletal battles, but i have not seen anyone focus on this ability. I think this two aditities with some feats can work very well together

I think go human woth extra slayer talents class bonus(every 6 level extra talent)
Strengh 16
Dexterity 16
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 13
Charisma 7

I think take Dirty Fighting, Improved Dirty Trick/Graplle, Improved unarmed strike(for improved grapple), Greater dirty trick/Grapple and dirty trick master. I dont know, will other grapple usefull(for example sneak damage in subission hold increase if i have deadly grapple?)

In talents i think take TWF style(extra needs for dirty trick master),evasion(rogue advanced talent) and blood reader.

I saw a ditry grapple feat, but on mid and high levels it not usefull, because later you can make 2 ataacks with dirty tricks(1 as free action, another instead of attack) and then make grapple as move action(and deal sneak damage)

What are you think about this and what advice you can give?


There are combat style feats & others (like throat slicer or equipment trick (smokestick)) which are useful for dirty tricks and for grappling, but they're not essential for either, and I think you'll have your hands full with the basics given you're going for two unrelated combat maneuvers. You probably will want rapid grapple at some point though.


avr wrote:
There are combat style feats & others (like throat slicer or equipment trick (smokestick)) which are useful for dirty tricks and for grappling, but they're not essential for either, and I think you'll have your hands full with the basics given you're going for two unrelated combat maneuvers. You probably will want rapid grapple at some point though.

oh yes,i forgot said that i take rapid grapple too. I will use armor spikes, so this extra damage for submission hold

I think go with one free hand(for grapple) and light weapon , to deal damage in grapple

Kitsune style can upgrade some dirty tricks aspect and grappling style for redusing grapple penalties, but without MoMS i cant use this styles together


i plan go around 16 level for this build


There's a lot of relevant combat styles for grappling; kraken and snapping turtle are the main ones but there are more obscure styles as well. Combat style master can switch between two styles as a free action if you get deeply into those.

If you're going to use armor spikes I suggest using those as your light weapon as well, and keep two hands free to grapple with. That way you can forget grabbing style exists.


With TWF, Rapid grapple, Quick dirty master,2nd and 6th level abilities and armor spikes i think make 2 attack(2d6+ dirty trick), dirty trick instead of attack, grapple as move action(3d6+1d6(extra sneak damage)+1d6 damage spikes(2d6 if i use deadly grapple)= 8d6 and 2 debuffs


There are ways to make dirty tricks in grapple, without taking dirty grapple?Or i can without any problemsmake dirty tricks in grapple using dirty trick master?


I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build


Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

Once you have Quick and Greater dirty tricks, you can reliably lock in your SA Damage even against opponents with Blindsight. There are other ways to lock in your SA Damage, and I think a Precision Damage character should have 2-3 different ways:

Dip a level in Arcanist, and take Dimensional Slide to help achieve Flanking.

Take Improved Feint and levels in Snakebite Striker Brawler so you can Feint as part of your Move.

Take 3 levels in Flame Dancer Bard so you and your allies can see through fire and smoke, then get an Eversmoking Bottle. Someone just told me about the Goz Mask and another magic item--salt spray ring?

Ninja Vanishing Trick to turn yourself Invisible, then you can do your Sneak Attack Damage. Use your Bounty Hunter Class Ability to play your Dirty Trick and make your opponent Blind.

Of course, I'm not suggesting any single build here, and doing all of these would involve taking many more than 3 classes. These are just some ideas I'm throwing out there that you might work into your build.

If you take 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent, you can Tie Up an opponent you have not Pinned--just Grappled, and you don't take the -10 you normally take. So, if you have Greater Grapple, you can make a 2nd Check as a Move Action and have an opponent Grappled and Tied Up in a single round as long as you begin that round adjacent to your opponent. Cavaliers get a Bonus Teamwork Feat, and Coordinated Maneuvers gives yo a +2 on all Combat Maneuver Checks.

There are 2 Alchemal Discoveries that give you a +6 on Grapple Checks between them: Tentacle gives Grab witha +4, and a Tumor Familiar that can be a King Crab that gives you a +2. You could be a Vivisectionist Alchemist and keep up your Sneak Attack Damage.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

I dont want use natursl attacks here. Also i think that submission hold - the main source of damage in this build


Submission hold is -5 to CMB, remember. If you can get sneak attack another way it'll be noticeably better than submission hold.

Once you get greater grapple, you can maintain a grapple as a move action and can take a standard action to do a dirty trick if you like. If something else grapples you then you can do a standard action dirty trick without needing to 'worry' about maintaining the grapple.

Quick dirty trick is another feat you might like. It's for use only when you're not grappling, but you may feel that grappling's dangerous sometimes.


avr wrote:

Submission hold is -5 to CMB, remember. If you can get sneak attack another way it'll be noticeably better than submission hold.

Once you get greater grapple, you can maintain a grapple as a move action and can take a standard action to do a dirty trick if you like. If something else grapples you then you can do a standard action dirty trick without needing to 'worry' about maintaining the grapple.

Quick dirty trick is another feat you might like. It's for use only when you're not grappling, but you may feel that grappling's dangerous sometimes.

In solo there is only one another way to deal sneak attacks - feinting enemy. For feinting i need Charisma, so i need change Int for Cha, but i dont want make character not smart. Also for that i need around 2 more feats and this build already feat expensive


You're playing solo? Hadn't seen you mention that before.

Blinding your enemy - with a dirty trick, for example - is another way to deal sneak attack. Magic allows a bunch of other ways, but slayers aren't good at magic.


avr wrote:

You're playing solo? Hadn't seen you mention that before.

Blinding your enemy - with a dirty trick, for example - is another way to deal sneak attack. Magic allows a bunch of other ways, but slayers aren't good at magic.

Well, this my plan to NPC( or maybe PC, if it will works good). and i think solo, because bounty hunters in most cases, i think work solo.


Also i will test this build vs another master on duel to know, how it will work


Is extra sneak attack feat increase bonus on dirty trick(2nd level ability)?


avr wrote:

Submission hold is -5 to CMB, remember. If you can get sneak attack another way it'll be noticeably better than submission hold.

Once you get greater grapple, you can maintain a grapple as a move action and can take a standard action to do a dirty trick if you like. If something else grapples you then you can do a standard action dirty trick without needing to 'worry' about maintaining the grapple.

Quick dirty trick is another feat you might like. It's for use only when you're not grappling, but you may feel that grappling's dangerous sometimes.

I know that can be dangerous. And enemy and me gain penalties in grapple, and because of that I thinking about taking Grapple style first feat.

Snapping turtle style feats gain more benefits(extra grapple, bonus to AC and CMD), but for me its hard to choose between more defense and grapple without penalties


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

Once you have Quick and Greater dirty tricks, you can reliably lock in your SA Damage even against opponents with Blindsight. There are other ways to lock in your SA Damage, and I think a Precision Damage character should have 2-3 different ways:

Dip a level in Arcanist, and take Dimensional Slide to help achieve Flanking.

Take Improved Feint and levels in Snakebite Striker Brawler so you...

Taking Witch or alchemist sounds good, but i dont want loose BAB(also loosing CMB and CMD). Some extracts from alcmesit I think now will help so much

Taking Snakebite Striker is intresting choice. I thinked about taking Strangler or Snakebite Striker, but dont know how levels of them I need take. Slayer(Bounty Hunter)6/Brawler(Strangler or Striker)X


If you're going to do Dirty Tricks and focus on non-lethal damage, I'd recommend getting Sap Adept and Sap Master.

Blind the target to make them flat-footed, then sap them with a Blackjack (or any bludgeoning weapon) for 2x your SnA dmg. It's a ton of damage.

Like, lets say you have Sap Adept and Sap Master, and your SnA is 4d6. Sap Adept increases your SnA to 4d6+4, and Sap Master doubles your SnA to 8d6+8.


Ryze Kuja wrote:

If you're going to do Dirty Tricks and focus on non-lethal damage, I'd recommend getting Sap Adept and Sap Master.

Blind the target to make them flat-footed, then sap them with a Blackjack (or any bludgeoning weapon) for 2x your SnA dmg. It's a ton of damage.

Like, lets say you have Sap Adept and Sap Master, and your SnA is 4d6. Sap Adept increases your SnA to 4d6+4, and Sap Master doubles your SnA to 8d6+8.

Taking sap adept/master is wonderful idea, but I dont know, will sneak damage in submission hold increased with this feats?


Multiclassing with lore Warden can give nice bonus to CMB( Fighter Full BAB plus Maneuver Mastery


Pro100Andr wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:

If you're going to do Dirty Tricks and focus on non-lethal damage, I'd recommend getting Sap Adept and Sap Master.

Blind the target to make them flat-footed, then sap them with a Blackjack (or any bludgeoning weapon) for 2x your SnA dmg. It's a ton of damage.

Like, lets say you have Sap Adept and Sap Master, and your SnA is 4d6. Sap Adept increases your SnA to 4d6+4, and Sap Master doubles your SnA to 8d6+8.

Taking sap adept/master is wonderful idea, but I dont know, will sneak damage in submission hold increased with this feats?

No, Submission Hold isn't using a bludgeoning weapon to deal the SnA damage. Sap Adept/Master requires a bludgeoning weapon.


Well, actually yes. An unarmed strike is considered a bludgeoning weapon....


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:

If you're going to do Dirty Tricks and focus on non-lethal damage, I'd recommend getting Sap Adept and Sap Master.

Blind the target to make them flat-footed, then sap them with a Blackjack (or any bludgeoning weapon) for 2x your SnA dmg. It's a ton of damage.

Like, lets say you have Sap Adept and Sap Master, and your SnA is 4d6. Sap Adept increases your SnA to 4d6+4, and Sap Master doubles your SnA to 8d6+8.

Taking sap adept/master is wonderful idea, but I dont know, will sneak damage in submission hold increased with this feats?
No, Submission Hold isn't using a bludgeoning weapon to deal the SnA damage. Sap Adept/Master requires a bludgeoning weapon.

Ow, thanks for information. But maybe this will works if I will grapple with hand and use boar style(or another style/feat that change unarmed type of damage)?


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Well, actually yes. An unarmed strike is considered a bludgeoning weapon....

So that means that means if I will grapple with hands, Sap bonuses will apply?


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Blind the target to make them flat-footed, then sap them with a Blackjack (or any bludgeoning weapon) for 2x your SnA dmg. It's a ton of damage.

Blame the designers who made this distinction, but blinding an opponent doesn't make them flat-footed.

If you're blinded you lose your dexterity bonus to AC. This means enemies target your flat-footed AC, but it doesn't mean that you are actually flat-footed.
The first is a type of AC, the second is a condition.


Wonderstell wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Blind the target to make them flat-footed, then sap them with a Blackjack (or any bludgeoning weapon) for 2x your SnA dmg. It's a ton of damage.

Blame the designers who made this distinction, but blinding an opponent doesn't make them flat-footed.

If you're blinded you lose your dexterity bonus to AC. This means enemies target your flat-footed AC, but it doesn't mean that you are actually flat-footed.
The first is a type of AC, the second is a condition.

Oh I said the wrong thing. Blinded targets aren't actually flat-footed, they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. SnA requires that targets are denied their Dex bonus to AC, so you still cause SnA damage to a blinded target.


Pro100Andr wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Well, actually yes. An unarmed strike is considered a bludgeoning weapon....
So that means that means if I will grapple with hands, Sap bonuses will apply?

Yes. When you cause damage during a grapple "You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.", and you're technically using a "light weapon" when you make an unarmed strike during your submission hold, and unarmed strikes deal bludgeoning damage. Sap Adept/Master require that you're making an SnA using a bludgeoning weapon.


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Well, actually yes. An unarmed strike is considered a bludgeoning weapon....
So that means that means if I will grapple with hands, Sap bonuses will apply?
Yes. When you cause damage during a grapple "You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.", and you're technically using a "light weapon" when you make an unarmed strike during your submission hold, and unarmed strikes deal bludgeoning damage. Sap Adept/Master require that you're making an SnA using a bludgeoning weapon.

Well i meaned increacing sneak damage when i do grapple(submission hold), not atack after grapple


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Oh I said the wrong thing. Blinded targets aren't actually flat-footed, they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. SnA requires that targets are denied their Dex bonus to AC, so you still cause SnA damage to a blinded target.

Indeed. But you were talking about how to trigger Sap Master, weren't you?

Ryze Kuja wrote:
If you're going to do Dirty Tricks and focus on non-lethal damage, I'd recommend getting Sap Adept and Sap Master.

Sap Master requires the opponent to be flat-footed. Blinding an opponent doesn't make them flat-footed.


You're absolutely correct. Well, darn...


Sap Master and adept looks very situational. Maybe this feats not so useful here


Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

Once you have Quick and Greater dirty tricks, you can reliably lock in your SA Damage even against opponents with Blindsight. There are other ways to lock in your SA Damage, and I think a Precision Damage character should have 2-3 different ways:

Dip a level in Arcanist, and take Dimensional Slide to help achieve Flanking.

Take Improved Feint and levels in

...

What are you think about multiclass?


Slayer(bounty hunter)6/Brawler(strangler) looks good for opinion. I dont loose so much on slayer side, but still have full BAB, Maneures bonus, sneak attacks and dont have grapple penalties without feats. Loosing Slayer talents and studied target progression a little hurts, but studied target dont give me CMB, and there arent much talents, that can be usefull here


Pro100Andr wrote:
avr wrote:

Submission hold is -5 to CMB, remember. If you can get sneak attack another way it'll be noticeably better than submission hold.

Once you get greater grapple, you can maintain a grapple as a move action and can take a standard action to do a dirty trick if you like. If something else grapples you then you can do a standard action dirty trick without needing to 'worry' about maintaining the grapple.

Quick dirty trick is another feat you might like. It's for use only when you're not grappling, but you may feel that grappling's dangerous sometimes.

In solo there is only one another way to deal sneak attacks - feinting enemy. For feinting i need Charisma, so i need change Int for Cha, but i dont want make character not smart. Also for that i need around 2 more feats and this build already feat expensive

There are other ways to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage without allies:

Invisibility
The ability to see through Smoke + Eversmoking Bottle
Canny Tumble

I don't know if you want to do any of those things, but a person could.


Pro100Andr wrote:
What are you think about multiclass?

In my own builds, I multiclass extensively.


Wonderstell wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Oh I said the wrong thing. Blinded targets aren't actually flat-footed, they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. SnA requires that targets are denied their Dex bonus to AC, so you still cause SnA damage to a blinded target.

Indeed. But you were talking about how to trigger Sap Master, weren't you?

Ryze Kuja wrote:
If you're going to do Dirty Tricks and focus on non-lethal damage, I'd recommend getting Sap Adept and Sap Master.
Sap Master requires the opponent to be flat-footed. Blinding an opponent doesn't make them flat-footed.

You can still Sap Adept with your opponent merely denied Dex Mod to AC and not Properly Flatfooted.

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Well, actually yes. An unarmed strike is considered a bludgeoning weapon....

And Knockout Artist. Both KA + SA do +1 Damage/SA Damage die. +2/die is pretty good.

You can decide whether you want to take Cornudgeon Smash and Shatter Defenses (properly flatfooted) later.


Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

I don't want use natural attacks here. Also i think that submission hold - the main source of damage in this build

I have a build for a Sneak Attacking Grappler I think is powerful, expecially since you want a character that operates solo.

Admittedly, this character is different from what you have been asking for initially, but I think it is very good at doing the kinds of things you want. This is a disappearing Ninja Sniper that is also a very powerful Grappler, and is excellent at taking out opponents without killing them.


Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

I dont want use natursl attacks here. Also i think that submission hold - the main source of damage in this build

Natural Attacks are definitely the way I prefer to Full Attack. How would you feel about getting lots of Attacks without Full Attacking?

I like the idea of Panther and Snake Style Feats, getting lots of Free Action and Attacks of Opportunity. With Unarmed Strikes, Feinting at early levels and Dirty Tricks as you get the Feats.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I think of Dirty Tricks as a means to the end of inflicting Sneak Attack Damage. Blind your opponents. If they have Blindsight, then Deafen them, too!

You can certainly nonletally subdue opponents with Grappling. I've worked out a few Grappling builds that I think work very well, both to the end of straight-up apprehending your quarry and to the end of inflicting lots of Damage, especially through Sneak Attack.

My preference in general and for achieving the above effects in particular is to multiclass extensively. Is it important to you to be a single Class Bounty Hunter Slayer, and how much do you care about your Race?

Well for RP not so important. I choose Human due to bonus feat and extra talents race bonus

Multiclass can be good, but im not fan of 3 or more classes in one build

I am thinking that Sneak Attack is a Damage Bonus that applies to all of your Attacks, so that once you have your Sneak Attack Damage locked in, the more attacks you have, the better.

For that, I like Natural Attack Builds: Play a Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite. Take a level in White Haired Witch, and get a Hair Attack. Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and get a Gore Attack. Wear Armor Spikes so that when you get your free Grapple with your 'Hair, you also get Armor Spike Damage, which also does Sneak Attack Damage. Take Hamatula Strike so that your Piercing Attacks, Bite and Gore, also get those Grapples and SA Damage. Take Versatile Weapon, and your Claws can do Piercing Damage, too, so that's 10 Attacks/Round to inflict your Sneak Attack Damage with.

I dont want use natursl attacks here. Also i think that submission hold - the main source of damage in this build

Natural Attacks are definitely the way I prefer to Full Attack. How would you feel about getting lots of Attacks without Full Attacking?

I like the idea of Panther and Snake Style Feats, getting lots of Free Action...

I dont think to do Full attack. I think taking many actions for using grapple and dirty trick, and maybe attack sometimes

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