Secondary Connection epiphany


Rules Questions


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

In COM, there is a mystic epiphany called Secondary Connection available at level 3. In the rules text for that ability it says that "If you worship a deity, your second connection must be one associated with that deity." Most of the major campaign deities have a few associated connections, but the minor ones don't.

So, what would a mystic that worships one of these minor deities (like Calistria) consider to be an associated connection?


Maester Jun Ixnar wrote:

In COM, there is a mystic epiphany called Secondary Connection available at level 3. In the rules text for that ability it says that "If you worship a deity, your second connection must be one associated with that deity." Most of the major campaign deities have a few associated connections, but the minor ones don't.

So, what would a mystic that worships one of these minor deities (like Calistria) consider to be an associated connection?

Is there a rule for primary connections to be associated?

Because this rule seems like something that should have been edited out.

Rules wise, sadly, there are no options if you have a deity without associated connections.


Garretmander wrote:
Because this rule seems like something that should have been edited out.
Mystic Connection wrote:
Many mystics serve as priests of various gods, and while you can theoretically choose any type of connection with any entity or concept, deities rarely grant connections that don’t fit within their ethos (for example, Weydan, the god of freedom, is unlikely to look kindly on overlords). As such, each connection lists the deities and philosophies commonly associated with it.

To me that reads more that you can't pick a connection that is antithetical to your deity. The connections with a listed deity are ones that are a given to be automatically allowed (i.e., the GM has no option to forbid the combination).

But I would interpret the restriction on Secondary Connections to be the same as with the primary Connection. Theoretically, any secondary connection could be allowed with GM approval.


breithauptclan wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
Because this rule seems like something that should have been edited out.
Mystic Connection wrote:
Many mystics serve as priests of various gods, and while you can theoretically choose any type of connection with any entity or concept, deities rarely grant connections that don’t fit within their ethos (for example, Weydan, the god of freedom, is unlikely to look kindly on overlords). As such, each connection lists the deities and philosophies commonly associated with it.

To me that reads more that you can't pick a connection that is antithetical to your deity. The connections with a listed deity are ones that are a given to be automatically allowed (i.e., the GM has no option to forbid the combination).

But I would interpret the restriction on Secondary Connections to be the same as with the primary Connection. Theoretically, any secondary connection could be allowed with GM approval.

Sure, but it's still 'commonly' for primary connection, and 'must' for secondary.


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Just wait to find god until you’ve hit third level.

Lord, give me your guidance, but not yet.


Garretmander wrote:
Sure, but it's still 'commonly' for primary connection, and 'must' for secondary.

Yes, and that is probably worthy of errata.

But I am not sure that it warrants being removed entirely from the secondary connection rules. The problem being that it would open the door for people to rules-lawyer an inappropriate connection/deity combination onto their character.

If the rest of the table is fine with that, no problem. They can houserule it so that the restriction is removed.

But if it is a powergamer player in a group of role-players that feel that the combination is jarring... They should still be able to have a leg to stand on when trying to reign in the powergamer. Really, that is all that this restriction is for - in either the primary connection or secondary connection.


Quote:
inappropriate connection/deity combination onto their character

If your character's power does not come from your character's deity, why are any connection/deity combos inappropriate?

The 'power gamer' will just play an atheist mystic and be fine by the rules.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Garretmander wrote:
Quote:
inappropriate connection/deity combination onto their character

If your character's power does not come from your character's deity, why are any connection/deity combos inappropriate?

The 'power gamer' will just play an atheist mystic and be fine by the rules.

Offhand? Because even if your powers don't come from a deity, they still come from cosmic forces. And those cosmic forces have compatibility issues. Which is to say, if you want to take both Healer and Devastation, you'd better have an *epic* explanation for how they are not antithetical forces. Also, you *can't* really be an "atheist mystic" in the manner you suggest, because one way or another you do need a Connection *ahem* with a higher power.

Alternatively, the GM should probably mandate that any Mystic who is not a follower of a deity still needs to pick which mystic philosophy they follow, instead. Like any custom backstory elements, this would be subject to GM approval for reasonableness and compatibility with the campaign.


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Metaphysician wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
Quote:
inappropriate connection/deity combination onto their character

If your character's power does not come from your character's deity, why are any connection/deity combos inappropriate?

The 'power gamer' will just play an atheist mystic and be fine by the rules.

Offhand? Because even if your powers don't come from a deity, they still come from cosmic forces. And those cosmic forces have compatibility issues. Which is to say, if you want to take both Healer and Devastation, you'd better have an *epic* explanation for how they are not antithetical forces. Also, you *can't* really be an "atheist mystic" in the manner you suggest, because one way or another you do need a Connection *ahem* with a higher power.

You can be a psychic who taps into the archetypes of the collective unconscious, and within that framework it's childishly easy to justify just about any combination. A healer/devastator is acting out a cycle of creation and destruction, or sees his connection as some sort of cosmic reverse phoenix or something.

Certainly you can mix and match any combination a particular god can offer without having to worship that god or follow a similar alignment.


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You were cursed with destruction, but really tried to heal people. Even when just walking through the ER would just suck the life out of people around you, you kept tryiing to find a way to do more good than harm. One day saranrae answered your prayers and helped you be a LITTLE bit less of a walking body count.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
Metaphysician wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
Quote:
inappropriate connection/deity combination onto their character

If your character's power does not come from your character's deity, why are any connection/deity combos inappropriate?

The 'power gamer' will just play an atheist mystic and be fine by the rules.

Offhand? Because even if your powers don't come from a deity, they still come from cosmic forces. And those cosmic forces have compatibility issues. Which is to say, if you want to take both Healer and Devastation, you'd better have an *epic* explanation for how they are not antithetical forces. Also, you *can't* really be an "atheist mystic" in the manner you suggest, because one way or another you do need a Connection *ahem* with a higher power.

You can be a psychic who taps into the archetypes of the collective unconscious, and within that framework it's childishly easy to justify just about any combination. A healer/devastator is acting out a cycle of creation and destruction, or sees his connection as some sort of cosmic reverse phoenix or something.

Certainly you can mix and match any combination a particular god can offer without having to worship that god or follow a similar alignment.

Yes, but you do still have to actually roleplay the ideology you invent. Always beware the "Path Of Doing What I Was Going To Do Anyway."


Metaphysician wrote:


Yes, but you do still have to actually roleplay the ideology you invent.

You really don't. Even those who envisions their powers coming from a god can be "quietly religious" types who can use their powers without bothering to talk about it or seek credit.

And once again I'm amazed that someone with the handle Metaphysician botches these relatively simple concepts. Being connected to a collective unconscious idea isn't the same as believing in an ideology. A Pathfinder oracle doesn't have to believe in anything to channel his powers, and neither does a Starfinder mystic.

You may not be interested in your connection, but your connection is interested in you. Fine, use it, but you don't have to talk about it, serve it, or outwardly express any aspect of your personality or inner thoughts that might be responsible for that connection.


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Role play is basically just a huge table variation anyway. I'm surprised we didn't remember the lessons we learned back in AD&D, never give someone a mechanical benefit balanced by an RP negative.

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