Eldritch Poisoner and rogue talents


Rules Questions


Alchemist discoveries that affect mundane poisons do not apply to an arcanotoxin.

It's a pretty stupid rule, but it's there.

Given that it's there, does RAI exclude tasty goodies like ?

A rogue with this talent can apply poison to a weapon in such a way that it is effective for a number of successful attacks equal to her Dexterity modifier (minimum two) instead of one. This poison has a reduced effect, however, and saves made against the poison gain a +2 circumstance bonus. Applying poison in this way is a full-round action, or a standard action if the rogue has the swift poison rogue talent.

You are trading alchemist progression to get it, but the interaction with other abilities didn't seem to be considered.

Does arcanotoxin only count as/act like a poison in certain contexts? Why wouldn't the author just spell that out instead? It's clearly called out as a poison in the first paragraph.

Additionally, qualifying discoveries as "mundane" is confusing to me, as it implies there are also discoveries that cover more than mundane. Further, I'm confident I could work out something mechanically to use Poison Conversion on something like Cloud Kill (unintended, almost certainly), so does that mean it's exempt now?
Coupled with the RAW that I absolutely can use this talent together with arcanotoxins, this is what I mean when I say it's a stupid rule.

So is it RAI to be able to manipulate arcanotoxins with abilities that are not "alchemist discoveries"?


RAI is indecipherable at this remove. RAW is that anything you can do to the arcanotoxin during its 1-minute lifetime without using an alchemical discovery is fair game. I don't think that abilities applied while you craft a poison would count.

If there is an alchemical discovery that only applies to magical poisons, not to mundane ones, that'd apply I guess. Edit: that wording is probably there to allow the archetype's own discoveries which affect arcanotoxins to actually work.


Well, quite frankly, I'm not even that convinced that Celestial Poisons doesn't apply. It's a Su ability that modifies the application of a poison to a weapon. Contrasted with the Elemental version which happens during creation.

RAI certainly seems to be that no other discoveries outside those the archetype introduces apply, but the wording is extremely strange to me, it would have been easier to say "only the discoveries listed here may modify arcanotoxins" than try to be cute.


Celestial Poisons affects mundane poisons, therefore it wouldn't apply to arcanotoxins.


RAW says you can use the rogue discovery. And I do in my build I made.

It may still be useful to get the discovery anyways, if you've any interest in harvesting.

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