Some items that grant enhancement bonuses to Intelligence (eg the staff of mithral might, dance of seven veils, robe of runes) make no mention of granting ranks in specific skills (unlike the headband of vast intelligence and others). How should the skill ranks granted by these items be handled? Should the player get to choose where to place them? Should they go on randomly-determined knowledge skills? Something else?
they should grant both skill ranks and languages. the skill and languages are set when creating the item for each +2 it gives.
link to relevant faq :
- getting skills and lang when increasing int (even by leveling up) ("such as..")
- item granted skills are set
Thanks, those links are helpful. However, the FAQ only refers to the headband of vast intelligence, not magic items in general. The trouble is, I can't find any general rule (or even guidance) about how this should be handled by default. The rule about granting ranks in sepcific skills is in the text of the headband of vast intelligence, but isn't repeated in every other Intelligence-boosting item.
A couple of those items date to D&D 3.5 which had no skill ranks given for enhancement bonuses to Int; skill ranks are assumed in PF as per zza ni's first link. By being the first such item written up in PF the headband is the default.
There is no general rule. Indeed, the first FAQ says "technically, Int-enhancing items (...) should grant a specific language", not that they actually do. It's basically a suggestion to houserule it because the writers screwed up.
RAW, you don't gain any skill ranks until you level up, at which point you only get more skill points for that level (not for any past levels). This goes against the stated goal of retroactivity, and RAW, you could take the item off afterwards and forever keep the extra skill ranks you've spent the points on.
The second FAQ practically begs (but doesn't create) a general rule that says you don't ever get skill points from int increases by magic items. I would use that, and in addition apply the headband-rule to the scarf and robe, but not the staff.
Not according to the actual written rules they don't.
"You apply your character’s Intelligence modifier to:
• The number of skill points gained each level, though your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level." CRB pg. 17
"Each level, your character gains a number of skill ranks dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier." CRB pg. 86
Both of these explicitly say "each level", clearly talking about the levelup process ("Adding a level generally gives you new abilities, additional skill points to spend (…) CRB pg. 30).
The rules on permanent bonuses (that never explained much and is practically useless thanks to this FAQ) mention "This might cause you to gain skill points", and the ability drain rules say "This might cause you to lose skill points", but sadly, neither really gives rules for that situation. Presumably because the writer(s) believed the skill rules or intelligence rules to cover the instance. James Jacobs posts shows that exact mindset, he believes the issue resolved by the removal of the specific exception. Sadly, that is not the case, as there is no rule that adjusts skill ranks on the fly.
Constitution would have the same issue, if it were not for the following part of the constitution description: "If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly." CRB pg. 16 Sadly, there is no such rule for skill ranks/points.
Thanks, those links are helpful. However, the FAQ only refers to the headband of vast intelligence, not magic items in general. The trouble is, I can't find any general rule (or even guidance) about how this should be handled by default. The rule about granting ranks in sepcific skills is in the text of the headband of vast intelligence, but isn't repeated in every other Intelligence-boosting item.
i specifically called out the words "such as" to show that it is not only talking about the int headband but any item that increase int.
lets read that line again:
"Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific language (in the same way they do for skill ranks)."
the headband is just an example here. not named as the only item that the rules work with, but to show one of many that it apply to. the fact the first apart is actuly about increase int by leveling up bonus (the one you get every 4 levels) show that the mention of the headband is not to limit but to give an example. that and the words 'such as'
i don't know what more do you want.
i specifically called out the words "such as" to show that it is not only talking about the int headband but any item that increase int.
lets read that line again:
"Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific language (in the same way they do for skill ranks)."
the headband is just an example here. not named as the only item that the rules work with, but to show one of many that it apply to. the fact the first apart is actuly about increase int by leveling up bonus (the one you get every 4 levels) show that the mention of the headband is not to limit but to give an example. that and the words 'such as'
Thanks again, but I don't think that FAQ is saying that all Int-enhancing items grant specific skill ranks. Rather, it appears to be saying that those Int-enhancing items that are like ("such as") a headband of vast intelligence - those that grant specific skill ranks - should also grant a specific language. The trouble is, there are several Int-enhancing items that grant specific skill ranks (such as a headband of vast intelligence) and several that don't (such as a robe of runes). This FAQ doesn't say what you should do about those that don't.
"such as" does not equate to "functions as" or "is like" it equates to "for example". That FAQ does in fact pertain to ALL Int-enhancing items, not just those that specifically call out rules for how to handle skill ranks from them.
The robe of runes is missing that language because it was written up pre-Pathfinder, in D&D 3.5. In that system Int-enhancing items did not grant skill ranks. Ever.
When using D&D 3.x items in PF you need to adjust them sometimes for the new system.
"such as" does not equate to "functions as" or "is like" it equates to "for example".
I'm afraid that's not correct. "Such as" has two meanings: the one you gave ("for example") and the one I was referring to ("that are like"). See Merriam-Webster, for example: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/such%20as. The FAQ can be read with either meaning, although the convention is that when you are using "such as" to give an example, you precede the phrase with a comma. Since the comma is missing here, I'm inclined to read it with the second meaning.
That FAQ does in fact pertain to ALL Int-enhancing items, not just those that specifically call out rules for how to handle skill ranks from them.
It could be read that way, as I said above. But even if that was the intent, it would be making an assumption about Int-enhancing items that isn't actually supported by the rules. As far as I can see, there is no rule that says all Int-enhancing items grant ranks in specific skills. One shouldn't have to rely on an implication in the answer to a FAQ on a different topic!
The robe of runes is missing that language because it was written up pre-Pathfinder, in D&D 3.5. In that system Int-enhancing items did not grant skill ranks. Ever.
When using D&D 3.x items in PF you need to adjust them sometimes for the new system.
That makes sense. However, the robe of runes was updated to Pathfinder rules in the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, but doesn't have any text about skill ranks there. That could just have been an oversight, I suppose. But the other two items (staff of mithral might and dance of seven veils) both appear in Pathfinder RPG products without any skill ranks text.
So, going back to my original question, how would you handle the skill ranks granted by these items?