Looking for some more players for a high powered, heavily-house ruled PF1e campaign set in the Ninth World setting of Monte Cook's Numenera


Recruitment

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Jesus, how did you do that?


Also, I didn't see a comment about it so I just want to make sure it wasn't missed (I did see the discussion note about you working 50 hours this weekend; not trying to rush you or anything).
Kiyoshi is GrinningJest3r's submission. Let me know if you get a chance to look him over and if you have any questions/concerns.

Shadow Lodge

Dαedαlus wrote:
Hanna wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:
Kaouse wrote:

Anything is allowed? Wow.

Could I play a double Aegis gestalt? Only with each side of the gestalt having different archetypes. Specifically:

Aegis (Ascendant) 12 || Aegis (Host of Heroes + Mekanikos) 12

This might have been missed, and it's possible it's not covered in Seb's first post(I didn't read most of the rules, as they are more or less the same as the Dark Sun and Rise games, plus I wrote a lot of them myself), but

Each class can have two gestalt archetypes, in addition to the base class features.

What this means is, you keep all of normal class features and then *add* the ones from each archetype.

For example, Hamza has the Brutal Slayer and Vigilante archetypes for the Stalker. He has the class features of all three, base class and both archetypes.

Wait so I could go crossblooded sorcerer, snag both bloodlines with no penalties to spells known or will save?

I’d say that’s undershooting yourself. I managed to cobble together an unholy combination that granted me the level 20 abilities of three classes, other than spell casting, before I gave up on the complexity.

I'm not asking about crossblooded because I think it's the most powerful archetype (if those two penalties were removed) I'm asking about crossblooded because I'm already considering a dragon disciple for the fun I could have with an elf that turns into a dragon

That being said, that does sound interesting and I'm curious how you manage


(Sorry, I just wanted to brag)

So, the Gestalt feat allows you to gain the class features of a class 1/2 your HD, other than spell casting, or increase the class features you have by that amount as well (no cap). So, if you go to the extreme end of allowed classes, you get level 12+1/2 your HD=18. Then, Mythic Gestalt increases the bonuses you receive by a number of levels equal to your tier (though the bonus itself cannot exceed your HD). This means that you end up with the class features of a level 20 or 21 class. Finally, Arcane Archetypes and the free archetype rules means that you can grab, for example, a sorcerer bloodline, and gain all of its bloodline abilities (at level 20/21) for free.

The ultimate sorcerer-bloodline build, I would say, would probably use Crossblooded and Mongrel Mage, for two full bloodlines of your choice that change every day. You could also just use the Arcane Archetypes to gain a bloodline instead of using crossblooded, as well.


Where did you get the Gestalt feat? I've never seen that.


It's in Horrifically Overpowered Feats, of which one can be taken per level.


Oh, yeah. I couldn't figure out where those came from and forgot to ask.

Shadow Lodge

I think I'm gonna have fun with my sorcerer 5 (dragon drinker, psychic crossblooded)/dragon disciple 12//aegis (crystal warrior, ectoplasmic artisan, abarent) 4/soul knife (high psionics, war soul, feral heart) 4/metaforge 4
Archmage 3/either trickster or champion 3

I do know that between mythic eldritch heritage, crossblooded and regular sorcerer I do have three bloodlines so that's fun. Dragon as the first bloodline, psychic for the second but the third stumps me. Could go serpent for more natural armor, poison on the bite, and a tiny snek friend or I could go shapeshifter first more energy resistance, fire on the claws and more strength

As is I have full BAB, great natural attacks 5th level spells (12th caster level) 2nd level psionic powers (8th manifester level), a handful of martial maneuvers (I think those are allowed? If not that's fine), and some really nice magical tricks

Actually wait with prestige spellcaster I can get 6th level spells, nice. It's fun to actually be able to afford that feat
Yeah with all these feats and everything allowed, there's basically almost no template worth it's CR in gestalt levels.... except I suppose some +0 templates like terror creature or magic blooded, but I don't need them even though I could explain the terror creature part as either the dragon fear or exposure to the grey/black

In I am going to be taking the extra blade talent feat just so many times

(This is the third version of this post, first two got deleted by a refresh and we're way more rambl-y)


Kiyoshi Gekido wrote:

Also, I didn't see a comment about it so I just want to make sure it wasn't missed (I did see the discussion note about you working 50 hours this weekend; not trying to rush you or anything).

Kiyoshi is GrinningJest3r's submission. Let me know if you get a chance to look him over and if you have any questions/concerns.

-- Looks good; do you want to do the set up of the other characters being a character that wakes up without memories of their previous life in the prior eras of the Ninth World, or do you want to make a character native to the current setting (I have one character that is the latter). If the latter, I was thinking your character could come from another part of the super continent described in the ninth world guidebook. Let me know


Hey Seb, what setting books would you suggest I look into for the Numenera game? Is there a player's guide, or something that would me get familiar with the world?

Considering making my PC come from the world, but unsure just yet.


The "ninth world guidebook" is the biggest setting document. There's information about the starting region -- the Steadfast and the Beyond, in the core rulebook.

There's a lot of stuff on wikis.

https://numenera.gamepedia.com/Numenera_Wiki

If you give me information about what kind of society/character you're thinking about, I can PM you some relevant info on suitable candidates.


Hmm, with Gestalt Archetypes, I can basically play an Aegis that's a fusion of all three archetypes (Ascendant + Host of Heroes + Mekanikos), all on one side of the gestalt!

Moreover, that leaves the other side free for something like an Occultist with 3 archetypes as well (Haunt Collector + Panoply Savant + Silksworn).

They're both INT based classes, and between Aegis's Astral Suit and Silksworn's cloth Implements, they actually have a shared theme of "wearing" power.

Potentially quite the powerful build, I think. The question now is, just how crazy should I expect things to be? I should probably look into a few of those HOPF.

Shadow Lodge

It's good when you can have so many abilities form together cohesively
Hanna's theme is someone raised by a dragon using magic to empower their body


I'm totally okay with being a native. I'll just need to set myself a crash course in Numenera lol. Let me know which area so that I know where to focus learning about.


I was thinking the character could be from the Lands of the Dawn, in a kingdom called Corao.


Why doesn't everyone interested in the Darksun-esque homebrew chime in on the discussion board for that game so we can keep this thread focused on Numenera.

The game is accessible through my avatar and is called "Serinbaal the Lands of Torment"


Doesn't seem like there's a lot out there regarding Corao, but I've read over what I could find. If there's anything specific I should know, can you point me towards where I can find it?

Also, I'm trying to refine Kiyoshi a bit. There were some items that I realized I don't particularly need for him and I can replace them with ways to shore up his missing items, so let me know what you think of these changes:

build ramblings:

Specifically, would you be willing to let me use one of the tail attack feats and disregard the racial requirement on them? Kobolds have "Tail Terror", Lizardfolk have "Dangerous Tail", Serpentfolk have "Tail Weapon", Tieflings can go "Grasping Tail" to "Lashing Tail", and Ratfolk can attach Tailblades and use them as natural attacks (I'm using human guise and racial heritage ratfolk for this at the moment), but Kitsune don't have a way to use their tails for attacks (obviously for balance issues, as they have Magical Tail feat which can grant them additional tail, each with their own SLA already, but since we're already going so powerful).

Trading out the "Cunning" feat since I already have more skills than I really know what to do with. Getting rid of Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses.

That would free up four feat slots for some Horrifically OP feats that I never looked into. Maximize Sneak Attack and Permanency as definites, with Prestigious and Gestalt getting used somewhere (probably for the Shadow Dancer and maybe (anti)paladin for CHA to saves, or just my Rogue for better sneak attack... not sure what class if any would really help here. I should find a way to allow at-will conversion of my incorporeal attacks to become corporeal so that I can more easily attack things that don't have a strength score).


remember, you can only have one HOPF per level, but besides that the build stuff seems fine.

I can PM you some stuff. It's a land on the other side of the continent from the steadfast, the main setting. It's at a higher tech level than the steadfast and has been recently connected to Navarene, one of the nations of the steadfast, by a portal.


Huh, if anything is allowed...does that include Kirthfinder?

Because I've always wanted to play Kirthfinder at a higher level, and I do have this Dracula build I've been interested in for quite a while...


I'm open to considering it, but not just handwaving it. We'd have to really think about the interaction of the two systems and come up with some generally applicable rules.

-For instance, the Kirthfinder stats work differently (wisdom applied to ranged damage right?). What if there are class abilities that are based on that? I'm not changing wisdom in that way.

-The skill system works differently -- we can't have two different skill systems in play, what would you propose to do about that?

The class abilities refer to synergy with other class abilities within this system -- there are going to be lots of questions about whether non KF classes are equivalents. What is your proposal for that?

The spell system for KF now is very different. I use a spell point system that all the casting classes use. How are you going to resolve that?

I'm not going to be open to 'I'll just use the KF version, and you use your rules'. You'll have to come up with accommodations that adapt the KF rules to my rules for all these issues and any others that come up.


Sebecloki wrote:
I'm open to considering it, but not just handwaving it. We'd have to really think about the interaction of the two systems and come up with some generally applicable rules.

I'm down for that, sure.

Quote:
-For instance, the Kirthfinder stats work differently (wisdom applied to ranged damage right?). What if there are class abilities that are based on that? I'm not changing wisdom in that way.

Wisdom applies to ranged attack rolls, Strength still applies to damage. This is no different than say, a Cleric using the Guided Hand feat. As for class abilities that are based on that, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Can you give an example of an unwanted interaction?

Quote:
-The skill system works differently -- we can't have two different skill systems in play, what would you propose to do about that?

Personally I'd propose to just use Kirthfinder's skill system, lol. But I admit that this puts a bit of extra strain on non-Kirthfinder players to adapt. As a result, it's probably not in your best interest to choose this.

Alternatively, you could implement some kind of cost to using Kirthfinder's skill system, like a reduction in the number of free feats that one receives. This makes sense, since a lot of old feats and abilities (like Quick Draw) were turned into base functions of a skill (like Sleight of Hand, for the aforementioned Quick Draw).

Given the increased importance of skills in Kirthfinder, I'd say that Kirthfinder characters could stand to lose 1 feat per level, on top of not getting Signature Skill in all skills.

Quote:
The class abilities refer to synergy with other class abilities within this system -- there are going to be lots of questions about whether non KF classes are equivalents. What is your proposal for that?

Class synergy is generally pretty specific. You add levels in X class for the purposes of Y class feature. Kirthfinder classes are direct copies of PF's Core Classes (+Oracle, in the case of the Incarnate). As a result, I'd allow synergy to count the PF Core Classes (+ Oracle) as if they were the Kirthfinder classes and vice versa. I would not allow archetypes from non Core (+Oracle) classes to count, even if they have the requisite class feature.

That said, it's important to note that there are several clauses to prevent abuse of the class synergy system. Mainly the fact that virtual levels don't ever count towards class synergy, and that synergy can never exceed your Hit Die.

Quote:
The spell system for KF now is very different. I use a spell point system that all the casting classes use. How are you going to resolve that?

The spell system is pretty much the same in Kirthfinder, at least when it comes to stuff like spell levels and whatnot. The only major change with spellcasting is it's action economy, which took a bit of a hit. It should still play perfectly well with the spell point system, assuming I'm understanding it correctly (i.e. character gains spell points = total levels of all spells that they can cast).

If anything, a Kirthfinder caster is going to have much less spell points than a Pathfinder caster, since they don't get more than 1 bonus spell per spell level from a high stat. But, Kirthfinder also makes it fairly easy to get at-will SLAs to fill in the gaps, so this spell point system actually helps them save for their higher level slots. It also works well with Kirthfinder's focus on building spells up with metamagic.

Quote:
I'm not going to be open to 'I'll just use the KF version, and you use your rules'. You'll have to come up with accommodations that adapt the KF rules to my rules for all these issues and any others that come up.

I hope the accommodations I've come up with seem reasonable to you. If you have any more concerns, or if you don't feel as though I fully addressed something, please let me know and I'm certain that we can come to an amicable conclusion that works best for us all.


Okay, my reaction to that list is:

But wisdom applying to ranged attacks is not included in all classes as a class ability like weapon finesse, it's just a base part of the system as a change in the ability score structure. You'll have to be comfortable that, unless you actually have an ability like weapon finesse for wisdom to damage for ranged weapons, this is not how wisdom, or any other ability will work. If it's assumed in class abilities, that's not enough. It would actually have to be a feat or racial trait or spell or some other mechanic.

We're definitely not changing out the existing skill system for the one in KF. That would be an enormous amount of adjustment. You'll have to explain in more detail how it's obvious the solution you're proposing about feat allocation is balanced.

If I'm not mistaken, the issues with class synergy is more complicated -- the Incarnate is also supposed to be the equivalent of a Shujenga and Monk, isn't it? That makes it more complicated than just treating it like an Oracle.

Doesn't KF now have a spell seed system that is fairly different than the base version? I would need more detail on this interaction.

I honestly think I've modeled most of the things from KF in these house rules already -- there are scaling feats from a 3pp. source, along with the Elephant in the Playground feat tax rules, all characters get skill unlocks for free, and all the gestalted material allows basically the level of customization that is permitted by the KF classes. Monkey also came up with a house rule to allow synergy of similar class abilities. The 'Talented Guide' and 'Everyman' series add dozens of options to classes like Fighter and Rogue.

What particularly is it that you feel this material adds that these existing rules don't already account for?

The issue is that it's going to be like trying to blend another d20 games with PF, like Fantasycraft. It's theoretically possible, but really messy. For instance, KF has a different action economy and has another save that doesn't exist in PF. There's going to be a lot of little details like that to account for.

It would probably be easier to try to use an individual feat or other feature, than design a character that is almost completely made out of this material.


Let me just clarify too that, before I'd entertain this idea seriously, I'd have to see a realistic explanation of why all the features in my house rules which I've already outlined, which are the same as features from KF like modular design, scaling feats, etc., plus all the options from thousands of PF1e sources, can't model what you're imagining without having to deal with rules interactions from KF like the different action economy and so forth.

I'm very skeptical that's the case.

I would want an explanation of not just why it might be possible, but why there isn't equivalent material in other sources without these rules interaction issues.

I'm going to go back to my initial impression -- I think we could probably use some feats or other individual abilities like rogue talents. I don't think there's any obvious reason to try to use whole classes or other mechanical systems when all the options I've already permitted can accomplish the same end.

I'd be more willing to entertain doing a KF table for this same world at some other point, and just using those rules instead of trying to mesh them with other stuff.


Updated with more. Just more.

I'm still down for being a native of Corao if you want to send me whatever extra you have on it. I did read the guidebook already, so anything else you have, I'll take it.

Are we dealing with Numenera bestiary or PF bestiary? Just wondering if I should modify the backstory a bit for that or leave it as PF origins?


Well if you can find a kitsune equivalent in the numenera bestiary that would be cool.


No luck. Checked all three bestiaries for the word "fox". Doesn't appear once. The closest thing might be a Beastcoat Infiltrator from Bestiary 3, but that's a bot that tries to take on the appearance of an animal to blend into their community. Though with the template I'd be more like a Shivern or a Shadow of the Void than anything, I think, if we're pulling something from the bestiary.

On the other hand, the tails could just be a mutation or nano upgrade? Some excerpt or story/myth/legend from one of the previous worlds and I thought it sounded awesome to have so many tails. Numenera character creation seems to be pretty fluid.

Or, I could be an actual undead survivor from Golarion, existing as a shadow for millennia - zoned out for most of it, letting the void and the hunger pull me through time. I could be one of the last shadows, proginitor to the Shadows of the Void! lmfao


Honestly, we already have one character from Golarion -- I wasn't really even planning on having that, but I suppose it can be justified on the basis of the cosmology of the Strange and the idea of parallel dimensions.

However, having multiple characters from Golarion feels fairly unfaithful to the idea of having a Numenera campaign, and I feel like that just encourages everyone to not even bother with the Ninth World fluff.

I'd really prefer something other than a character from Tian-Xia.

Kitsune are also part of Japanese mythology -- the character could have come from a mythical Japan, or a parallel dimension created by weeboos or something else.


Sebecloki wrote:


Kitsune are also part of Japanese mythology -- the character could have come from a mythical Japan, or a parallel dimension created by weeboos or something else.

Isn't the Ninth World just Earth in an incredibly distant future?(billions of years).

As undead, you could have lived that long, *especially* if you spent the vast majority of that time on plane/dimension that has variant time passage.


Sebecloki wrote:

However, having multiple characters from Golarion feels fairly unfaithful to the idea of having a Numenera campaign, and I feel like that just encourages everyone to not even bother with the Ninth World fluff.

I'd really prefer something other than a character from Tian-Xia.

That's fine, and that was mostly the plan. That's why I keep trying to find out more about Corao and Numenera as a whole.

Looking through character creation guidelines, there's a Tail mutation there waiting for me :D
I'd end up something like "a mutant seeker who explores dark places" (depending on the dice roll, I could get up to 4 tails without any mechanical bonus, but I'm also not going to get into the various mutations since we're building via pathfinder rules)

Let's see....

Kiyoshi altered:

Kiyoshi's tail singled him out from the day he was born. Mutations are not all bad, and some of the non-visible ones can be extremely beneficial, but having one so distinctive definitely didn't help make his life easy. Things got worse as every couple of years, his tails would split apart until he found himself walking around with a grand total of nine tails. It seemed as though the more tails he grew, the less his old friends wanted to be associated with him - as if the mutation could be transferred to them, like an infectious disease - until people would go out of their own way to avoid associating with him. It was enough to drive anyone mad.

With that sort of ostracization, Kiyoshi spent his free time exploring the countryside, searching for caves, caverns, and other likely hiding places of lost treasure. He learned how to walk, run, climb, and even fight with his tails, using them for balance, using them to handle small objects - though, as the tails are not prehensile, doing this took so much concentration as to be generally not worth it. He learned how to move, how to use the shadows, and how to practically disappear in the blink of an eye. He picked up very quickly how to distinguish between flora and fauna that he could safely interact with and plenty of monstrous things that would like nothing more than to see him dead.

In the end, one of those things succeeded in making that a reality. While delving deeper into a new (to him) cave system than he had ever dared, he never even saw his attacker except as a flicker in the corner of his eye. His strength was sapped, and he collapsed against one of the walls of the cave, before absolute blackness engulfed his vision...

When Kiyoshi next woke, it was a very strange feeling, finding himself without a physical body. He was less than most ghosts, insubstantial, silent, but extremely fast - compared to his old self - he could even fly with no physical body to limit him. He felt the cold of the grave or the void in his very essence, and there's a desire there, almost intelligent in its own right, edging him on, guiding him out towards more prey. If nothing else, he will have to deal with this constant struggle not to surrender himself to the Void. Not unless he wants to create more like himself.

So started out as human, but the mutation gave him tails. The Rogue portion of his classes comes from being one who Explores Dark Places. The combination of arcane and shadow Bloodrager bloodlines is the only thing that allowed him to be reborn (since the Shadows of the Void don't generally create new Shadows from the ones they kill) and now he has those as additional abilities to tap into, though it's not so much tapping into his own abilities, as what the Void will allow him to have. The Dread Shadow template is what he is now. Ranger and Shadowdancer are just natural extensions of what he used to do and what his life was before the transformation.

I've got a s#%+ ton of languages (27) that I can mix and match based on what we'll need. He had to learn the languages to get by and get information in his hunt for new and exciting places and artifacts.

Also, am I going to start out as an amne also, even as a known-native?


no, that means you'll have some idea what's going on starting out.


Kiyoshi Gekido wrote:
Sebecloki wrote:

However, having multiple characters from Golarion feels fairly unfaithful to the idea of having a Numenera campaign, and I feel like that just encourages everyone to not even bother with the Ninth World fluff.

I'd really prefer something other than a character from Tian-Xia.

That's fine, and that was mostly the plan. That's why I keep trying to find out more about Corao and Numenera as a whole.

Looking through character creation guidelines, there's a Tail mutation there waiting for me :D
I'd end up something like "a mutant seeker who explores dark places" (depending on the dice roll, I could get up to 4 tails without any mechanical bonus, but I'm also not going to get into the various mutations since we're building via pathfinder rules)

Let's see....

** spoiler omitted **...

Actually, I think I have an even cooler idea -- why don't you be an inhabitant of one of the other planets in the galaxy who is visiting Earth? I'll PM you some ideas and write you a nice intro next week if that seems good. I'm looking at the Numenera book about the other planets, and there are some really neat ideas. I also have an idea for a story arc to involve you in based on being a visitor from another world.


Definitely down with that. Which book were you reading? If you've got discord, you can also hit me up on there and we can talk about this a bit easier. GrinningJest3r#1457


I hope to have some time this weekend to continue reading up on the Ninth World. I can probably get a preliminary character together in the next several days or so.


Ok, so it doesn't seem like further discussion on Kirthfinder is likely to pan out, so I'll drop it for now. Instead, I'm thinking of playing a Fighter / Eliciter gestalt, using Spheres of Power, if that's allowed.

Specifically, a Coiled Blade Myrmidon Fighter with the free Impressor and Impossible Warrior archetypes, combined with and an Eliciter with the free Dark Presence and Id archetypes.

The idea is sort of to be an "Inspiring Warlord" or some such. I'm still working out the feats and whatnot, but what do you think?

Dark Archive

Hey, here's a submission that's about 98% complete.
I love the character building and world ideas. It just takes me forever.

If you're still open, I wanted to check a few things, for the witch side of my char.
First, since we're coming into the world without wealth, does that mean wizards or witches won't be able to learn spells until after they've been present?

Would I need to pickup a new familiar?
If you use Int for AC, I assume that replaces Dex, (and is lost if you're flat footed)? Can I also replace Dex for Int for Combat Maneuver Defense?


I can take another player -- I work on the weekend, so I may not get to your questions until Tuesday (I also have to work tomorrow for the Holiday).

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