Avoiding Cover with Telekinetic Projectile


Rules Discussion


A wizard in my game is using the Telekinetic Projectile cantrip to avoid various forms of cover by arguing that she is launching various items from the other side of the cover at the target. Usually this is used to avoid the soft cover penalty caused by other people in the way.

Looking at the spell it appears that any unattended object within range is launched at the target. Lately our fights are in a junky abandoned dungeon so there is plenty of rubble and detritus for handy projectiles.

So far I've ruled that this works ok as long as the object and the target are both within 30ft of the caster.

Has this come up at any other tables?


Lacking any hard rule to specify otherwise, I would personally rule that it doesn't avoid cover due to still being harder to see and aim at. But I can definitely see this going either way.


Flambe wrote:
A wizard in my game is using the Telekinetic Projectile cantrip to avoid various forms of cover by arguing that she is launching various items from the other side of the cover at the target. Usually this is used to avoid the soft cover penalty caused by other people in the way.

Cover Core Rulebook pg. 477:"When you’re behind an obstacle that could block weapons, guard you against explosions, and make you harder to detect, you’re behind cover."

It's still going to "make you harder to detect" a foe because of other people in the way. As such, I don't see the spell avoiding cover.


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As a rule you dont ignore cover unless that cover no longer applies to you based on your positioning or you have a rule that specifically allows you to ignore said cover. Telekinetic projectile does neither. At the end of the day, the foe is still harder to perceive, so while I get the argument that there isn't something physical in the way, the cover is still effecting your ability to aim the projectile.

My feelings on this may change if you have some method of perceiving the foe from another angle, like say a Vigilent Eye, but even then you have the logistics of aiming something from an angle that is not your own.

Pf2 doesnt deal with angles of attack well enough for telekinetic projectile to really provide this kind of benefit.


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Trying to gain a mechanical advantage by asking the GM to apply real-world rules and expectations in preference to the written rules of the game...


Its the "Make a ranged attack against the target" that comes into play here.

The target must be within the spell's range, and you must be able to see it (or otherwise perceive it with a precise sense) to target it normally.

Would you not also have to see the object your going to turn into the Projectile as well yes?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's been errata'd to be a spell attack, not a ranged attack.

In my games, the players asked the exact same question, and I allow for it.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Strictly speaking, cover is determined by drawing a line from you to the target. Since the spell targets a creature and not the object you're throwing, a creature that has cover against you will continue to have cover.

If you want to allow it to avoid cover, you can of course, but it's already one of the stronger attack cantrips to begin with.


Thanks for the feedback guys. Your points about the cover making the target harder to detect are good ones. I am going to reinstate the cover penalties for her.


We had this come up last night with skeletons inside a prison. We could see them fine through the bars but they had cover because we had to shoot through the bars. One used this to shoot a pebble from inside the cage at them, gm and players all agreed no cover because he had full visibility but did t have to aim through the bars now.


Flambe wrote:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Your points about the cover making the target harder to detect are good ones. I am going to reinstate the cover penalties for her.

As a counterpoint, maybe draw (if you guys are using simple maps) a couple of rubble piles in middle of the map, by doing this you can limit the benefit while still rewarding clever thinking. While I do agree with the guys here about cover rules, I think this is a more interesting approach that keeps the clever uses of the ability in the game while not being something that can be applied all the time. The best of both worlds.

Sometimes the player will gain the benefit by positioning herself, sometimes she will have to go through cover.

I think this is the type of thing that makes the game and spells interesting and I wish that PF allowed for more clever usage like that. I honestly don't like the hyper specific spells of Pathfinder because none of them actually come nowhere near as close to the spells and how they're used in the best fantasy stories that I read and enjoy. Because Pathfinder doesn't concerns itself with HOW spells achieve something but only shows the results and effects, clever ideas are squashed to the ground.

I think you have an opportunity here to make a cantrip (that will hardly break the game) be used in a more smart way by limiting the objects thrown.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You also reduce cover penalties by 1 if it makes sense too.


When referencing how it mentions how hard someone is to detect, I am pretty sure that is the rules explaining why you can take certain stealth actions like hide while in cover.

Personally I would and have allowed telekinetic projectile.

Nothing says that the attack roll LoS is determined from your square to the best of my memory.

"When measuring cover against an area effect, draw the line from the effect’s point of origin to the center of the creature’s space."

Not directly related, but from an intention clarification sense it shows that determining cover doesn't have to come from your space.

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