hydraulic push and siegebreaker...?


Rules Questions


Hello guys,

Well I was toying with the fighter's archetype named siegebreaker and was wondering, shall I go basic bull rush, or shield based bull rushes etc...

And then thought about spells like hydraulic push and torrents.

So my question is: does the siegebreaker first level ability work with the spell? Will I do my strength as extra damage?

Spoiler:
Breaker Rush (Ex)

At 1st level, a siegebreaker can attempt bull rush or overrun combat maneuvers without provoking attacks of opportunity. When he performs either combat maneuver, he deals an amount of bludgeoning damage equal to his Strength bonus (minimum 1). If he has Improved Bull Rush or Improved Overrun, the damage dealt by the appropriate maneuver increases by 2 and he adds any enhancement bonus from his armor or shield (though such enhancement bonuses do not stack, if both armor and shield are magic).

This ability replaces the feat gained at 1st level.

Breaker Momentum (Ex)

At 2nd level, when a siegebreaker successfully bull rushes a foe, he can attempt an overrun combat maneuver check against that foe as a free action.

This ability replaces the feat gained at 2nd level.

And what about painfull collision ? Merciless rush etc?


RAI - no.

RAW - It looks like Yes.


I don't think so. The spells work like the maneuver, but are not actually performing the maneuver.


You call forth a quick blast of water that knocks over and soaks one creature or square. You can use this blast of water to make a bull rush against any one creature or object.

I can see that this is a little open to interpretation, but it doesn't say "works like", it says "make a combat maneuver".

I'm of the opinion that you're actually making a bull rush with this, so it should work.

As I said though, RAI it was totally not meant to work like this.


I think it works RAW and it's hilarious.


The funniest part is that your Armour/Shield bonus applies


MrCharisma wrote:
You call forth a quick blast of water that knocks over and soaks one creature or square. You can use this blast of water to make a bull rush against any one creature or object.

I can see that this is a little open to interpretation, but it doesn't say "works like", it says "make a combat maneuver".

I'm of the opinion that you're actually making a bull rush with this, so it should work.

As I said though, RAI it was totally not meant to work like this.

I get it - by RAW, it's a solid argument. I doubt it would ever fly.


Yeah it's kinda stupid.

Rules As Written - Yes.
Rules As Intended - No.

Funny though

Sovereign Court

Hm, now I am tempted to fit this onto my Hydraulic Maneuver Sorcerer... but it has a Strength score of 8.


RAW, this should work lol XD

RAI, absolutely not. The Siegebreaker abilities are clearly intended to mechanically give the Fighter the ability to use his armor, shield, and weapons, and sheer brute force, (not magic or items) to break through the enemy's front lines.

I wonder how much fun you could have with a DM who ever allowed this.... with a Battering Blast + Siegebreaker2 build = Ranged Bull Rush vs. 2 to 5+ targets ---> Free action Teleport Overrun to each target? XD


Yeah that's quite fun to imagine that ^^.
Thanks anyway guys, I wonder now what's the best class/archetype to use those kind of tricks.

A crossblooded orc / dragon going dragon disciple ? Getting huge amounts of strength and spells to bullrush in every kind of ways?

You could even go full metamagic on hydraulic push, and get it quickened as lv 3 spells and still do some full attacks and/or normal bullrush shenanigans

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