magic items with a curse


Rules Questions


so, I see making a magic item with a curse makes it -90% cost (or only cost 10 percent the normal ammount).

could I do that with selecting starting magic items?


Curses are more varied than that by quite a bit. Also - not usually, curses to order rather than set by the GM aren't actually a penalty.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Where have you found that rule? I don't recall ever seeing it.

AFAIK a cursed item is produced when failing magic item production, so the production cost is the same as a normal magic item.


Intentionally crafting cursed items requires the same item creation feats and skill checks as does crafting a normal item of that type, but in addition to such requirements, intentionally cursed items require bestow curse or major curse as a spell prerequisites. Crafting cursed items is generally cheaper than creating fully functional items, depending on the type of curse involved, as detailed below. The table above indicates the price and spell prerequisites of some of the most common deliberately created cursed items.

Delusion: Cost is reduced by 90%.

Drawbacks and Requirements: Cost isn’t reduced for cosmetic drawbacks or requirements with no direct game effects. Cost may be reduced by 10% for minor drawbacks or requirements such as minimum skill ranks or worship of a specific deity; by 30% for harmful or costly drawbacks or requirements such as alignment change, ability damage, sacrificing wealth, or performing a quest to activate the item; or by 50% for severe drawbacks or requirements such as negative levels or sacrificing sentient creatures.

Intermittent Functioning: The cost of uncontrolled or unreliable items is reduced by 10%. The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations, is reduced by 30%.

Opposite Effect or Target: Cost is reduced by 50%.

Source PPC:BM

Buyers must always beware of deals too good to be true, though, as curses ancient and insidious await.

Most cursed items are created by accident, when the crafting process goes horribly wrong. However, some devious crafters create such items on purpose—either to deceive and discomfit others or because the cursed effect is somehow useful.

That's the PFSRD (so NOT a rules source, but it's generally good).

I agree with avr, you couldn't add some meaningless curse to reduce the cost of crafting a +5 weapon to 5,000gp.

In our Carrion Crown game the GM added a cursed dagger (I think he added it, otherwise SPOILERS AHEAD ... but very minor ones). It' a +1 Shapeshifter-Bane dagger. There are two curses: 1. The handle is made of flesh and is alive (so it's weird). 2. The owner of the dagger has their hair grow at the rate of 6 feet per day. Both of these curses are torally meaningless, but the item is cursed because it comes at level 4-5. If you just sell the item for half it's cost you'd get 4,000gp which is a hige boon, but adding curses reduces the sale price, meaning the players are more likely to keep this interesting item. My Occultist instantly took it as her Transmutation Implement without even asking the other party members =P

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The 90% discount is for Delusion.

Quote:

Delusion

The user believes the item is what it appears to be, yet it actually has no magical power other than to deceive. The user is mentally fooled into thinking the item is functioning and cannot be convinced otherwise without the casting of remove curse.

So yes, the player can buy/craft as many make-believe +5 arrows as he wants for 100 gp apiece. As he needs to fulfill the normal requirement he still needs to be level 15 to craft them (obviously GM permitting, it is still a non-standard magic item.

If the GM is willing to manage the hassle he can even sell them and then suffer the consequences when the buyer or his friends and companions discover that they are fake items.

P.S.: MrCharisma, thanks for the citation.

P.P.S.: it gives some interesting idea for the campaign I am GMing, it seems a great kind of item for wizards of the Pride school to give around.


I think cursed items are a great way to give your characters more interesting items than just "+1 Breastplate" without seriously unbalancing their wealth by level.

As to actually crafting them, I *think* this comes from the GMs guide, and there's a thing about not allowing an elf to craft a cursed item that can only be used by elves - because obviously it's not really a drawback. Anything about this is going to rely heavily on GM fiat to avoid abusing this mechanic.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
MrCharisma wrote:


As to actually crafting them, I *think* this comes from the GMs guide, and there's a thing about not allowing an elf to craft a cursed item that can only be used by elves - because obviously it's not really a drawback. Anything about this is going to rely heavily on GM fiat to avoid abusing this mechanic.

While they have never gone around to changing the text, the Devs have said that the discount should apply only to the sale price, not the crafting price.

SKR, when he was the guy in charge of replying to rule questions:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
James Risner wrote:
So more than likely, the price will be as if the light/esplend worked for everyone despite the fact it doesn't.

Correct.

When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating. Observe:

Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6. Cost to create: 18,000 gp

vs.

Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6, but it only works for male humans (discount!) named Ezren (discount!) who are at least "old" age (discount) and were born in Absalom (discount!). Cost to create: ridiculously cheap, even though it works exactly like a standard headband +6.

Black Markets is more recent that that comment, so it supersedes it, but I am always wary of using booklets as a major rule source without GM input.

All in all, what matters is decision of the GM of the specific group.


"could I do that with selecting starting magic items?"

this typically goes by 'sale price'

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Shinoskay wrote:

"could I do that with selecting starting magic items?"

this typically goes by 'sale price'

Sure, but who is producing the items?

If someone is producing magic items with the Delusion effect, I doubt that they will be sold as cursed items, as they have no effect besides the delusion affecting the user.

Quote:


Delusion: Cost is reduced by 90%.

Delusion
The user believes the item is what it appears to be, yet it actually has no magical power other than to deceive. The user is mentally fooled into thinking the item is functioning and cannot be convinced otherwise without the casting of remove curse.

The other curses have lower discounts and the specification: "DCost isn’t reduced for cosmetic drawbacks or requirements with no direct game effects."

Note that what change is the Cost, not the Sale Price.

For custom magic items, everything is in the hands of the GM, so ask him.


you guys are fixating on the delusional curse.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Shinoskay wrote:
you guys are fixating on the delusional curse.
Shinoskay wrote:
so, I see making a magic item with a curse makes it -90% cost (or only cost 10 percent the normal ammount).

It is the only one that gives a 90% discount.

Quote:

Drawbacks and Requirements: Cost isn’t reduced for cosmetic drawbacks or requirements with no direct game effects. Cost may be reduced by 10% for minor drawbacks or requirements such as minimum skill ranks or worship of a specific deity; by 30% for harmful or costly drawbacks or requirements such as alignment change, ability damage, sacrificing wealth, or performing a quest to activate the item; or by 50% for severe drawbacks or requirements such as negative levels or sacrificing sentient creatures.

[b ]Intermittent Functioning[ / b]: The cost of uncontrolled or unreliable items is reduced by 10%. The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations, is reduced by 30%.

Opposite Effect or Target: Cost is reduced by 50%.

The drawback or requirement should be meaningful, so an item that raises perception and requires some rank in perception has no cost reduction, while one that increases perception at more than 10' and reduces it at 10' or less will have a 10% reduction cost.
An unholy weapon that changes your alignment to evil has no cost reduction (suffering that effect actually remove the negative level bestowed on non-evil users), while an unholy weapon that changes your alignment to good can be worth a 30% discount


but its established to not actually be magic item creation.

im probably more likely to use the selective or requirement effects. the question was could this system be applied, per raw, to starting items using WBL.


me wrote:
Also - not usually, curses to order rather than set by the GM aren't actually a penalty.
SKR wrote:
James Risner wrote:
So more than likely, the price will be as if the light/esplend worked for everyone despite the fact it doesn't.

Correct.

When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating. Observe:

Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6. Cost to create: 18,000 gp

vs.

Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6, but it only works for male humans (discount!) named Ezren (discount!) who are at least "old" age (discount) and were born in Absalom (discount!). Cost to create: ridiculously cheap, even though it works exactly like a standard headband +6.

I get it's not what you want to hear Shinoskay, but that's what's been written. The GM's under no obligation to allow purchase of cursed items at all, and the guidelines are to not use the discount for WBL.


Shinoskay wrote:
the question was could this system be applied, per raw, to starting items using WBL.

The only RAW regarding what you can or can't use for starting items is that it's deliberately left to the GM.

"Table 12–4 can also be used to budget gear for characters starting above 1st level, such as a new character created to replace a dead one. Characters should spend no more than half their total wealth on any single item. For a balanced approach, PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins." (CRB pg. 400, emphasis mine)

These are the entire rules in the CB regarding starting wealth at higher levels. See the words that I've bolded? They show that these rules are not hard and fast rules, but rather guidelines to help the GM.

We were never in a position to give a definite answer, because only the GM can do that. The GM decides what your character can start with. So that's who you have to ask.

Of course, Black Markets says for Drawbacks and Requirements that the cost "may be reduced", not that it automatically is, so even if the GM allows your attempt to cheat the system, they can easily deny any reduction that doesn't come with an actual drawback for your character, and are still within the written rules.


((Of course, Black Markets says for Drawbacks and Requirements that the cost "may be reduced"))

cool

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