Gunslingers and Swashbuckers Initiative - Do they Stack?


Rules Questions


Do these Swashbucklers and and Gunslingers Deed stack?

Gunslinger Initiative (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she gains the following benefits. First, she gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks. Furthermore, if she has the Quick Draw feat, her hands are free and unrestrained, and the firearm is not hidden, she can draw a single firearm as part of the initiative check.

Swashbuckler Initiative (Ex): At 3rd level, while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, if she has the Quick Draw feat, her hands are free and unrestrained, and she has any single light or one-handed piercing melee weapon that isn’t hidden, she can draw that weapon as part of the initiative check.


Sure, why not. They're class features from different classes.


They do in fact... I hope that’s not the best thing you’re getting out of 6 levels.


"Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source." CRB pg 208

Since there is nothing else given, the source can only be the specific deed.
The Quick Draw parts work simultaneously, too, meaning you could draw both a firearm, and a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon as part of the initiative check.


Derklord wrote:

"Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source." CRB pg 208

Since there is nothing else given, the source can only be the specific deed.
The Quick Draw parts work simultaneously, too, meaning you could draw both a firearm, and a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon as part of the initiative check.

Brilliant, thank you. I wasn't sure if because Grit and Panache can pool together. They bonus would count as both coming from the Heroic Pool. For example if I only had 1 point left, does that satisfy both deeds?

RAWmonger wrote:
They do in fact... I hope that’s not the best thing you’re getting out of 6 levels.

In fact, I get it from 9 Levels ;-)


Minigiant wrote:
I wasn't sure if because Grit and Panache can pool together. They bonus would count as both coming from the Heroic Pool.

Well, it's never explained what a "source" is, and this FAQ muddles the issue a bit (because it misuses the stacking rules in order to avoid having to errata the CRB), but a pool is just a pool. Unlike an ability score bonus, the pool is not a bonus in itself. It's the class features that grant whatever the benefits of the pool are. So in this case, the sources are the two deeds, which are seperate class features. So stack away!

Minigiant wrote:
For example if I only had 1 point left, does that satisfy both deeds?

"Characters with both grit and panache class features combine the two resources into a larger pool of both grit points and panache points. (...) For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain panache points in place of grit points, and vice versa." (ACG pg. 56) I interpret that as the points being both. There is some dubiousness because the first sentence can be interpreted in more than one way and the last sentence doesn't explicitly mention counting as the other for non-spending purposes, but that would require you to keep trakc of the individual pools after all, which goes very strictly against the (explicitly stated!) spirit.


There’s another FAQ for channel energy that suggests an ability under a different name that does the same thing is still that ability. Hence, why paladins and oracles can take channeling feats, despite not having a class feature called “channel energy”. But in this case, these two abilities do different things.

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