What happens when the crit deals enough damage to drop the pc, and they fail the Fort save so they get wounded 1?
I'm thinking the attack deals one "lot" of effects, and in this case it is damage and the condition, so both are figured out before both are applied simultaneously.
Otherwise you can see the dmg drop them, then they go to Dying 2 but get wounded 1 or you apply the wounded first and they go to Dying 3.
Pls n thank you
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It seems to me like "wounded" and "dying" mutually exclusive. You can never be "Wounded 1" and "Dying 2".
So I believe you are right..the initial critical moves the character to "Dying 2" since it drought them to 0 and they you apply the bone crunch "wounded 1" moving them to "Dying 3". Ouch!!!!
Wounded and Dying are not mutually exclusive. The Dying condition explicitly states that when you lose it, you increase any existing Wounded condition by 1.
If the base damage from a Rogue's attack dropped you to 0, you wouldn't drop to 0 and then increase your Dying value because of the Sneak Attack damage, you would apply all the damage at once, and be Dying 1.
It all happens at once. You become Dying 2 Wounded 1.
Also, increasing the Wounded value of a Dying character would not increase the Dying value. The Dying condition only cares about the Wounded value at the time that you gain the Dying condition.
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It seems to me like "wounded" and "dying" mutually exclusive. You can never be "Wounded 1" and "Dying 2".
So I believe you are right..the initial critical moves the character to "Dying 2" since it drought them to 0 and they you apply the bone crunch "wounded 1" moving them to "Dying 3". Ouch!!!!
Wounded and Dying are not mutually exclusive. The Dying condition explicitly states that when you lose it, you increase any existing Wounded condition by 1.
If the base damage from a Rogue's attack dropped you to 0, you wouldn't drop to 0 and then increase your Dying value because of the Sneak Attack damage, you would apply all the damage at once, and be Dying 1.
It all happens at once. You become Dying 2 Wounded 1.
Also, increasing the Wounded value of a Dying character would not increase the Dying value. The Dying condition only cares about the Wounded value at the time that you gain the Dying condition.
You are correct I read "Dying" wrong, I was thinking you lost "Wounded" when you went "Dying" but you do not.
But if you end up taking damage while "dying" you end gaining you end up adding "wounded" condition wouldn't it add 1 to you "dying". In that section anytime you take damage it would add....
taking Damage while Dying
If you take damage while you already have the dying condition, increase your dying condition value by 1, or by 2 if the damage came from an attacker’s critical hit or your own critical failure. If you have the wounded condition, remember to add the value of your wounded condition to your dying value.
It would seem you would be "dying 3" and "wounded 1" since wounded would add to dying on a critical hit.
Not sure but my thoughts on it
Just my thoughts...
But if you end up taking damage while "dying" you end gaining you end up adding "wounded" condition wouldn't it add 1 to you "dying". In that section anytime you take damage it would add....
I am having a hard time understanding this segment. Can you please clarify?
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Also, increasing the Wounded value of a Dying character would not increase the Dying value. The Dying condition only cares about the Wounded value at the time that you gain the Dying condition
[/quoteI was just trying makes sense of your statement quoted above. It would seem based on the section I posted about "taking damage while dying" page 451 that that "wounded" condition is still taken into account when "dying"...at least that is how I read it.
Maybe we are talking past each other but it seems to me if "wounded" increases while you are already "dying" it would get figured into the calculation to determine if you hit "dying 4" and thus you would be dead.
Just my thoughts on it...
Thanks all for the responses, I agree too it adds to the dying so straight to dying 3, and wounded 1. That hits hard.
I see it as "deliver this package of conditions as a result of the hit, which is X damage and condition wounded." THEN it all applies, so the PC is wounded when they fall from damage, it isn't "do as written in that order" so much.
I do think a lot of my rules Qs myself come from the rules in Magic, where you can slow everything down and get very weird corner cases but the rules simply support it, as opposed to Pathfinder which is much more "tell a story, the rules should support it but not run it" aka rule of cool.
So if you're DOOMED and get crit'd by a Bone crunching bite, that's insta-death. Yikes.
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I probably wouldn't run it that way, but I prefer a less deadly game. I think ending up dying 2, wounded 1 is plenty scary enough.
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I probably wouldn't run it that way, but I prefer a less deadly game. I think ending up dying 2, wounded 1 is plenty scary enough.
I lean that way too, going directly to Dying 3 seems excessive.
Although it seems to me that strictly reading the text, the Wounded 1 is something that happens on-hit, before and regardless of whether you take damage. If you cancelled all the damage with a shield, you'd still become Wounded 1.
So the order of operations would be:
- Get critically hit.
- Resolve on-hit effects, including the bite. Go to Wounded 1 (if you fail the save).
- Calculate damage.
- Apply resistances, weaknesses, shields etc.
- Notice that you've gone below 1 HP.
- Get Dying 1 from going below 1 HP, +1 for Crit, +1 for Wounded 1 = Dying 3.
It makes it a pretty brutal monster.
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As a side note, it specifically sets you to Wounded 1, so if you already had a Wounded condition it wouldn't make it worse.
As a side note, it specifically sets you to Wounded 1, so if you already had a Wounded condition it wouldn't make it worse.
:p Oh sure, "it crit me and I got better lol. "I was wounded 3, but hell, it spat some bones BACK into me!"
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I probably wouldn't run it that way, but I prefer a less deadly game. I think ending up dying 2, wounded 1 is plenty scary enough.I lean that way too, going directly to Dying 3 seems excessive.
Although it seems to me that strictly reading the text, the Wounded 1 is something that happens on-hit, before and regardless of whether you take damage. If you cancelled all the damage with a shield, you'd still become Wounded 1.
So the order of operations would be:
- Get critically hit.
- Resolve on-hit effects, including the bite. Go to Wounded 1 (if you fail the save).
- Calculate damage.
- Apply resistances, weaknesses, shields etc.
- Notice that you've gone below 1 HP.
- Get Dying 1 from going below 1 HP, +1 for Crit, +1 for Wounded 1 = Dying 3.It makes it a pretty brutal monster.
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As a side note, it specifically sets you to Wounded 1, so if you already had a Wounded condition it wouldn't make it worse.
I meant to edit my previous post in regards to this but fell asleep. This is the wrong order of operations for the ability. Here's how it should go.
-Hyenadon targets a creature with a Jaws Strike
-Hyenadon makes an Attack Roll
-Hyenadon rolls a Nat 20
-Target takes critical damage
-Target is KOed, and is now Dying 2
-Bone Crushing Bite checks to see if the last attack was a Critical Jaws Strike
-Bone Crushing Bite confirms the last attack was a Critical Jaws Strike
-Target makes a DC20 Fort save
-Target fails
-Target is now Wounded 1
You would resolve the main attack before moving onto the additional ability on the attack, but technically all the effects happen in the same instance, and can not influence each other. If a creature had an attack that dealt additional damage on a crit, it wouldn't knock someone to dying 3 if the original damage was enough to KO them. All damage and effects are applied at the same exact time. Why assume this ability is any different?