Greater Cover Rule of Thumb?


Rules Discussion


So cover comes in three flavors: (page 477)

Lesser Cover - A single character blocks your LOS to your target. +1 to AC, but has no impact on stealth.

Cover - an obstacle blocks your LOS to your target. +2 to AC and to Stealth (Hide and Sneak) checks.

Greater Cover - cover + the Take Cover action or GM Discretion. +4 to AC and Stealth (Hide and Sneak) checks, but only if it is greater cover by GM ruling, as the rule states you can't get the +4 greater cover bonus from cover + take cover because when you move you no longer are taking cover. (page 252)

So what rule of thumb are GMs using for greater cover?

I am trying to write a guide/flow chart for the stealth rules and greater cover is really undefined, yet matters greatly to sneaky characters.

It must be less than being completely out of sight (as you couldn't attack them), yet greater than cover (+2 to AC).

So what is greater cover? Of how are you ruling it?

Grand Lodge

From my perspective, Greater Cover would be akin to targeting someone standing behind an arrow slit or other equally small opening (i.e. sliding speakeasy door window, jailer's window, or very closely-spaced iron bars in a iron wall [about 1/2" apart])

Greater Cover should be difficult to obtain in normal circumstances, IMHO.

NiftyB


Nifty Butterfinger wrote:

From my perspective, Greater Cover would be akin to targeting someone standing behind an arrow slit or other equally small opening (i.e. sliding speakeasy door window, jailer's window, or very closely-spaced iron bars in a iron wall [about 1/2" apart])

Greater Cover should be difficult to obtain in normal circumstances, IMHO.

NiftyB

I agree with you, it should not be easy to get. I think I will use greater cover to describe things that are military in design.

A hole is cover.
A fighting hole is greater cover.

A watch tower is cover.
A guard tower with merlons would be greater cover.

etc.


TheHarangue wrote:
Nifty Butterfinger wrote:

From my perspective, Greater Cover would be akin to targeting someone standing behind an arrow slit or other equally small opening (i.e. sliding speakeasy door window, jailer's window, or very closely-spaced iron bars in a iron wall [about 1/2" apart])

Greater Cover should be difficult to obtain in normal circumstances, IMHO.

NiftyB

I agree with you, it should not be easy to get. I think I will use greater cover to describe things that are military in design.

A hole is cover.
A fighting hole is greater cover.

A watch tower is cover.
A guard tower with merlons would be greater cover.

etc.

Greater Cover is not meant to be that difficult to get. If you have Standard Cover, and use an action to Take Cover, you get Greater Cover.

CRB 471 wrote:
TAKE COVER [one-action]Requirements You are benefiting from cover, are near a feature that allows you to take cover, or are prone.You press yourself against a wall or duck behind an obstacle to take better advantage of cover (page 477). If you would have standard cover, you instead gain greater cover, which provides a +4 circumstance bonus to AC; to Reflex saves against area effects; and to Stealth checks to Hide, Sneak, or otherwise avoid detection. Otherwise, you gain the benefits of standard cover (a +2 circumstance bonus instead). This lasts until you move from your current space, use an attack action, become unconscious, or end this effect as a free action.

Something like an arrow slit in a wall would effectively make you untargetable. That's kind of why arrow slits were invented. They let you attack from safety.

Successfully laying siege to a castle is in fact nigh impossible, which is why most historical armies chose to cut off supply lines and starve the occupants instead.

Grand Lodge

Aratorin wrote:
TheHarangue wrote:
Nifty Butterfinger wrote:

From my perspective, Greater Cover would be akin to targeting someone standing behind an arrow slit or other equally small opening (i.e. sliding speakeasy door window, jailer's window, or very closely-spaced iron bars in a iron wall [about 1/2" apart])

Greater Cover should be difficult to obtain in normal circumstances, IMHO.

NiftyB

I agree with you, it should not be easy to get. I think I will use greater cover to describe things that are military in design.

A hole is cover.
A fighting hole is greater cover.

A watch tower is cover.
A guard tower with merlons would be greater cover.

etc.

Greater Cover is not meant to be that difficult to get. If you have Standard Cover, and use an action to Take Cover, you get Greater Cover.

CRB 471 wrote:
TAKE COVER [one-action]Requirements You are benefiting from cover, are near a feature that allows you to take cover, or are prone.You press yourself against a wall or duck behind an obstacle to take better advantage of cover (page 477). If you would have standard cover, you instead gain greater cover, which provides a +4 circumstance bonus to AC; to Reflex saves against area effects; and to Stealth checks to Hide, Sneak, or otherwise avoid detection. Otherwise, you gain the benefits of standard cover (a +2 circumstance bonus instead). This lasts until you move from your current space, use an attack action, become unconscious, or end this effect as a free action.

Something like an arrow slit in a wall would effectively make you untargetable. That's kind of why arrow slits were invented. They let you attack from safety.

Successfully laying siege to a castle is in fact nigh impossible, which is why most historical armies chose to cut off supply lines and starve the occupants instead.

I was making my statements from the opinion that no "Take Cover" action was used by the creature seeking such elevated levels of protection such as the archer standing behind the arrow slit and plying their bows to great effect. they would benefit from Greater Cover automatically by virtue of the construction of their surroundings.

If they used the "take cover" action they would be effectively
not 'targetable'. This is likely not within RAW and possibly not within RAI, but it's how I would and will roll when running as a DM.

..I do what I want.. lol

NiftyB


Aratorin wrote:


Something like an arrow slit in a wall would effectively make you untargetable. That's kind of why arrow slits were invented. They let you attack from safety.

Successfully laying siege to a castle is in fact nigh impossible, which is why most historical armies chose to cut off supply lines and starve the occupants instead.

For what it's worth, the level 16 instant fortress item only grants standard cover from its arrow slits, although this can be waved off as being due to an item balance concern.

Arrow slits along the lower battlements and crenelations at the top provide standard cover to anyone within the fortress

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