Quickened Casting


Homebrew and House Rules

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Timeshadow wrote:
You could always allow the feat itself to be taken multiple times so you could use it multiple times per day...Is the cost of a higher lvl class feat worth being able to cast multiple times per day?

I like this solution, but I'd probably still put a cooldown on it to prevent it from being used multiple times per encounter.

Maybe have the follow up feat be "The Frequency for Quicken Spell becomes 'up to three times per day but no more than once per hour'."


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The Gleeful Grognard wrote:


1/day doesn't mean real world days. It is in game. So even if your group is as slow or non combative as you suggest it doesn't mean the next session will have the ability recharge.

Oh, I'm well aware of this. I'm not super familiar with the timescale most APs are done at, but for most "minor" encounters, I just tend to abstract them out to hazards. Drawing up a map for a 2 turn battle just seems silly to me. Due to having a number of folks in my group on flexible work schedules, I also tend to plan most adventures to conclude on the same game day they are started, so that weirdness can be avoided when a player who shows up to the first half cant make it to the second

I'm just kinda shocked that people are frequently running into scenerios where they have two or more fights per day that mandates a quickened spell


Timeshadow wrote:
You could always allow the feat itself to be taken multiple times so you could use it multiple times per day...Is the cost of a higher lvl class feat worth being able to cast multiple times per day?

This might be the best compromise, and as others have said, inputting a frequency of 10 minutes or more would make sense for balance purposes.

I still don't like the concept of taking the same feat over and over again simply because it has such universal applications. This can be remedied by new content publications, but until then, it's a problem, and even after then, it might still be a problem depending on what feat(s) get published.

Sovereign Court

If we think Focus is a bit too cheap for refreshing use of this feat, we can think of more dire currencies.

"Accept a level of Doomed to regain a use of this ability" for example.


Ascalaphus wrote:
If we think Focus is a bit too cheap

How about a sliding scale?

first time free
second time 1 focus
third time 2 focus
forth time 3 focus

This would require maxing out focus and getting an ability to regain extra focus [like Familiar Focus] to get the most out of it. Throw in something like [this feat can only be used once per encounter] and it seems pretty good to me.


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Ascalaphus wrote:

If we think Focus is a bit too cheap for refreshing use of this feat, we can think of more dire currencies.

"Accept a level of Doomed to regain a use of this ability" for example.

Sounds like a cool Evil-aligned feat where you can "loan" your soul to a vile patron for a temporary resurgence in power. But I find its application to a generic Quicken Spell feat to be a bit outlandish.


What about "reduce your focus cap by 1 for the remainder of the day, if you have a focus cap of 0 you can no longer use focus spells" as a cost?

Sovereign Court

PossibleCabbage wrote:
What about "reduce your focus cap by 1 for the remainder of the day, if you have a focus cap of 0 you can no longer use focus spells" as a cost?

That's an interesting idea, a bit "burn" like in that it's a penalty you can't get rid of until you do a long rest.

Sovereign Court

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:

If we think Focus is a bit too cheap for refreshing use of this feat, we can think of more dire currencies.

"Accept a level of Doomed to regain a use of this ability" for example.

Sounds like a cool Evil-aligned feat where you can "loan" your soul to a vile patron for a temporary resurgence in power. But I find its application to a generic Quicken Spell feat to be a bit outlandish.

Yeah I agree, it's a bit dark. My earlier idea was "accept a level of Dying".

I do think it's interesting design space but it's too specific-flavor for this.


FlashRebel wrote:

I don't think it would fit too well with the current design of the game: no activity or ability uses this type of limitation anymore, you either can use it during an encounter or you can't , there are no limited numbers of uses per encounter. The only exception is the way focus spells work, when 10 minutes of rest are available between fights.

For a 10th level feat, Quickened Casting is underwhelming, above all since metamagic feats can no longer be used together on a single cast. I really fail to imagine a recurring scenario where a single spell per day cast faster (not even nearly instantaneously) would make much of a difference. Making it usable once every few minutes would probably work and still wouldn't break the action economy in half.

Captain Morgan wrote:
Once per encounter would be extremely strong.
What exactly would make casting a single spell in an encounter in one less action "extremly strong"? It's not as if spell slots grew on trees, and not even the strongest spells available can be quickened (it only works on spells at least 2 levels lower than the caster's maximum spell level).

Well, they don't have '1/encounter' directly anymore at least. Barbarians have 1/rage powers like dragon breath (or 'you haven't used this since you last raged'). Given the fact that rage lasts 1 minute, and has a 1 minute cool down, that is effectively 'once per encounter' (unless I am missing some rage cycling mechanic).

Anyway, the power being 1/encounter would be strong because there is the obvious place to use it- during the first round. That way, you could potentially get off two powerful spells that cripple, buff, etc., letting your party going into a well prepped battle field.

While spell slots are expended, the slots are a usually a far more plentiful resource than focus points. I would be more comfortable with just making a generic caster feat that lets you quicken spells whenever you want, but it costs a focus point.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I don't think that the original Quickened Casting feat doesn't need to be more powerful, but a later feat which builds off of it could make the feat more appealing.

If you're thinking something like "Improved X", the I think this is in the "absolutely not" realm for me. This is the design philosophy that makes me dread a lot of abilities in PF1e and Starfinder. You shouldn't be making choices that will become obsolete later down the line that you must also keep because it's a prerequisite.

If you mean some other kind of feat that significantly alter the way Quickened Casting works that represents a actual choice made by the player, then I would be down for it.

Otherwise, if more power should be injected into the feat just give it a boost in a specific level. For example, at level 15th (or whatever) your spell limit is only 1 level lower if the spell cast is from your specialty school, then/or at another level you get another use per day. I don't mind improvements as long as its already in the choice you made like Catfall (which, to be honest, I expected to see more of these feats, instead we got just a few).


How about the next feat gives a focus point and says that after the initial free use of quickened, you can spend focus to quickened a spell that is no more then double the focus spent. That caps the spell at level 6 and gives a bit of flexibility for lower level spells.


Castilliano wrote:

In a game w/ 10-minute lulls, it's pretty simple to extend those to 1-hour lulls. Starting tough combats w/ a Quickened combo would make delaying worthwhile so I don't think 1/hour is feasible.

It really is a powerful feat, especially in games (i.e. Kingmaker) where you have only a few combats per day. If you think it needs to tuning to suit your playstyle, fine, but recognize Paizo had to balance it for all regular playstyles. So far in this thread each recommendation I've seen has made the feat mandatory.

Rolling two D20's and keeping the best is pretty strong, however Halflings get a feat chain that allows them to do just that.

It really depends on what you are doing, in most cases for various reasons in game and out, you do not have the luxury to sit around for 1 hour after every fight.

At 18th level, you are very much not gonna hold back in fights unless it is a mook fight, in which case, 1/hour makes you feel cool, while potentially still being able to use it in a boss fight later. In this situation at most you might be able to use it 3 times.

It isn't that Quickened Spell is weak, because it is not and combos really strong with other feats that reduce casting time in some way. It just feels like it needs a higher level companion feat that gives it a little more use, which is something that wouldn't break the game.


Alchemic_Genius wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:


1/day doesn't mean real world days. It is in game. So even if your group is as slow or non combative as you suggest it doesn't mean the next session will have the ability recharge.

Oh, I'm well aware of this. I'm not super familiar with the timescale most APs are done at, but for most "minor" encounters, I just tend to abstract them out to hazards. Drawing up a map for a 2 turn battle just seems silly to me. Due to having a number of folks in my group on flexible work schedules, I also tend to plan most adventures to conclude on the same game day they are started, so that weirdness can be avoided when a player who shows up to the first half cant make it to the second

I'm just kinda shocked that people are frequently running into scenerios where they have two or more fights per day that mandates a quickened spell

This is a good option to. I think the 1/hour restriction is a must if this feat is opened up to more than one use a day. It would other wise be broken.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
You could always allow the feat itself to be taken multiple times so you could use it multiple times per day...Is the cost of a higher lvl class feat worth being able to cast multiple times per day?

This might be the best compromise, and as others have said, inputting a frequency of 10 minutes or more would make sense for balance purposes.

I still don't like the concept of taking the same feat over and over again simply because it has such universal applications. This can be remedied by new content publications, but until then, it's a problem, and even after then, it might still be a problem depending on what feat(s) get published.

I think it is the cool factor of overkill in the weaker fights people are looking for.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
What about "reduce your focus cap by 1 for the remainder of the day, if you have a focus cap of 0 you can no longer use focus spells" as a cost?

This would end up unbalanced in that this would be a far bigger penalty to oracles. Also how do you calculate their ability to push the curse 1 to 3 times a day?


Ascalaphus wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:

If we think Focus is a bit too cheap for refreshing use of this feat, we can think of more dire currencies.

"Accept a level of Doomed to regain a use of this ability" for example.

Sounds like a cool Evil-aligned feat where you can "loan" your soul to a vile patron for a temporary resurgence in power. But I find its application to a generic Quicken Spell feat to be a bit outlandish.

Yeah I agree, it's a bit dark. My earlier idea was "accept a level of Dying".

I do think it's interesting design space but it's too specific-flavor for this.

This could work to. The way I see burn working in this edition is to increase the drained condition, which can only be reduced by rest.


Isiah.AT wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
What about "reduce your focus cap by 1 for the remainder of the day, if you have a focus cap of 0 you can no longer use focus spells" as a cost?

This would end up unbalanced in that this would be a far bigger penalty to oracles. Also how do you calculate their ability to push the curse 1 to 3 times a day?

I'd say just make the "extra quickening" feat a wizard thing. Wizards don't really have much going for them now, and "unquestioned masters of metamagic" seems appropriate.


Isiah.AT wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
What about "reduce your focus cap by 1 for the remainder of the day, if you have a focus cap of 0 you can no longer use focus spells" as a cost?

This would end up unbalanced in that this would be a far bigger penalty to oracles. Also how do you calculate their ability to push the curse 1 to 3 times a day?

I hope the actual oracle looks nothing the playtest, so is I'm lucky what you're talking about isn't an issue. ;)

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