# Dragon Breath on flying

### Rules Questions

Hi. I would like to know if a dragon can expel his breath of fire on flying, and how the area of effect would be calculated.
Thank you.

If it has the Flyby feat, it can spend its standard breath attack ant any point during a move action, the area would be the same as normal but it would have more flex-ability with things to hit. Otherwise it would just do the breath at the start or end of flying.

Line breath attacks are an oddity since the dragon would have to get really low I assume? I would personally run a bit of a house rule on some of the breaths myself to follow along under it sometimes.

If you're trying to calculate the area of effect with a Cone or a Line while the dragon is moving, remember that a Flyby Attack is a Move-Attack-Move and 1 round is approximately 6 seconds.

So, how fast does your dragon move while flying in a given round? Calculate it based off that.

For example, a Very Old Red Dragon has a Fly speed of 250ft (Clumsy) and a 60ft Cone Breath attack. So if you're doing a Flyby Attack, you can move-attack-move only as long as you don't travel a total amount that is more than your movement speed. A standard action is approximately 4 seconds. 250/6 = 41.6, so every 1 second, the dragon will move 41.6ft. So if he performs a Breath Attack (standard action, 4 seconds) in the middle of his round, he'll travel 166.66ft while doing his breath attack. So his entire round will look something like this: he'll travel 41.6ft, then perform a breath attack while moving for 166.66 ft, and then travel 41.6ft, and his round is over. His breath attack is a 60ft cone, so if you draw that on a map, it's going to be a circle with a radius of 30ft that travels along the 166.66ft.

So it would look something like this:

[------------------][OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO][------------------] (60ft wide)
.......41ft...............................................................1 66ft...............................................................41ft

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Ryze Kuja wrote:

If you're trying to calculate the area of effect with a Cone or a Line while the dragon is moving, remember that a Flyby Attack is a Move-Attack-Move and 1 round is approximately 6 seconds.

So, how fast does your dragon move while flying in a given round? Calculate it based off that.

For example, a Very Old Red Dragon has a Fly speed of 250ft (Clumsy) and a 60ft Cone Breath attack. So if you're doing a Flyby Attack, you can move-attack-move only as long as you don't travel a total amount that is more than your movement speed. A standard action is approximately 4 seconds. 250/6 = 41.6, so every 1 second, the dragon will move 41.6ft. So if he performs a Breath Attack (standard action, 4 seconds) in the middle of his round, he'll travel 166.66ft while doing his breath attack. So his entire round will look something like this: he'll travel 41.6ft, then perform a breath attack while moving for 166.66 ft, and then travel 41.6ft, and his round is over. His breath attack is a 60ft cone, so if you draw that on a map, it's going to be a circle with a radius of 30ft that travels along the 166.66ft.

So it would look something like this:

[------------------][OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO][------------------] (60ft wide)
.......41ft...............................................................1 66ft...............................................................41ft

No no no not at all, that breath weapon happens at the spot he uses it not along a portion of his distance. It's one 60ft cone if he is at max distance from the ground then its a circle of 60ft on the ground where he aimed it. But it doesn't sweep or strafe any more than if the dragon wanted to move his head while breathing it out.

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Unless you want to import the Strafing Breath feat.

The breath weapon occurs instantaneously. This is simpler and keeps the players from arguing about exactly which squares are included and whether/how much the effect should be reduced for a certain area because it only got blasted for a fraction of the usual time of exposure for a standing breath weapon.

If you're using Flyby Attack, do a partial move, process the breath weapon from that location, then finish the move. Simple as that.

(Of course, if your table enjoys figuring out swept volumes, go for it.)

Talonhawke wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:

If you're trying to calculate the area of effect with a Cone or a Line while the dragon is moving, remember that a Flyby Attack is a Move-Attack-Move and 1 round is approximately 6 seconds.

So, how fast does your dragon move while flying in a given round? Calculate it based off that.

For example, a Very Old Red Dragon has a Fly speed of 250ft (Clumsy) and a 60ft Cone Breath attack. So if you're doing a Flyby Attack, you can move-attack-move only as long as you don't travel a total amount that is more than your movement speed. A standard action is approximately 4 seconds. 250/6 = 41.6, so every 1 second, the dragon will move 41.6ft. So if he performs a Breath Attack (standard action, 4 seconds) in the middle of his round, he'll travel 166.66ft while doing his breath attack. So his entire round will look something like this: he'll travel 41.6ft, then perform a breath attack while moving for 166.66 ft, and then travel 41.6ft, and his round is over. His breath attack is a 60ft cone, so if you draw that on a map, it's going to be a circle with a radius of 30ft that travels along the 166.66ft.

So it would look something like this:

[------------------][OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO][------------------] (60ft wide)
.......41ft...............................................................1 66ft...............................................................41ft

No no no not at all, that breath weapon happens at the spot he uses it not along a portion of his distance. It's one 60ft cone if he is at max distance from the ground then its a circle of 60ft on the ground where he aimed it. But it doesn't sweep or strafe any more than if the dragon wanted to move his head while breathing it out.

I know it's instantaneous, but it didn't sound like he was asking for that kind of a calculation. It sounded like he was trying to figure out how to burn a line as he's flying. But what he's asking for doesn't exist in Pathfinder, hence he can calculate it like my example and still stay loosely within the rules of a Flyby Attack.

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But that wouldn't belong in the rules question forum. You should always assume OP is asking for RAW or other official rulings unless they directly say otherwise, and if you're giving your opinion in the rules forum, you should try to make that clear as well... would be easy for newer players to assume you're telling them an actual rule for their question, since it's the Rules Questions forum...

RAWmonger wrote:
But that wouldn't belong in the rules question forum. You should always assume OP is asking for RAW or other official rulings unless they directly say otherwise, and if you're giving your opinion in the rules forum, you should try to make that clear as well... would be easy for newer players to assume you're telling them an actual rule for their question, since it's the Rules Questions forum...

OP was asking for something that didn't exist, and I gave a theoretical calculation in 41.6ft + 166.66ft + 41.6ft for what he's trying to accomplish in a game that is played in 5ft squares . Honestly, didn't even cross my mind to put in a disclaimer because there are no rules for what he's trying to do. I'll be more mindful in the future.

Talonhawke wrote:

No no no not at all, that breath weapon happens at the spot he uses it not along a portion of his distance. It's one 60ft cone if he is at max distance from the ground then its a circle of 60ft on the ground where he aimed it. But it doesn't sweep or strafe any more than if the dragon wanted to move his head while breathing it out.

I like this idea.

Movement - Breath Attack (Circle 60f on ground) - Movement

On other websites I have read that there is a feat "Strafing Breath" that allows you to lengthen the breath half of your movement. But in Pathfinder there is only the feat Flyby Attack. Anyway I will use the circle technique.

Thank you.

sirmaniak wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:

No no no not at all, that breath weapon happens at the spot he uses it not along a portion of his distance. It's one 60ft cone if he is at max distance from the ground then its a circle of 60ft on the ground where he aimed it. But it doesn't sweep or strafe any more than if the dragon wanted to move his head while breathing it out.

I like this idea.

Movement - Breath Attack (Circle 60f on ground) - Movement

On other websites I have read that there is a feat "Strafing Breath" that allows you to lengthen the breath half of your movement. But in Pathfinder there is only the feat Flyby Attack. Anyway I will use the circle technique.

Thank you.

Yeah 3.5 had a slew of feats in the Draconomicon to make dragon breath wholly more versatile for dragons to be more of a 4-6 on 1 threat.

Ryze Kuja wrote:
A standard action is approximately 4 seconds.

So a standard action is about 4 seconds. A swift action is about 0.5 seconds. Leaving about 1.5 seconds for a move action.

That means I can move 30' in 1.5 seconds, but if I want to move another 30' (double move) it takes an additional 4 seconds...

No, a standard is not about 4 seconds. At most its 3 seconds. In actuality probably a little less than that. But in rules mechanics it has no assigned time frame at all, just that you can only do 1 of them in a six second time frame during which you may or may not be doing anything else.

I've always envisioned it as a Full Round is ~6 seconds, a Standard Action is ~4 seconds, Move Action ~2 seconds, Swift and Immediate are ~0.1 seconds, and Free Actions are 0.00 seconds.

Note that these are all approximate values, because it is not defined in the rules how long these actually take.