Stuff That You Wish Paizo Had Done For Pathfinder 1E?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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^That's what Fighter Weapon Training sort of is(*), and some weird archetypes of other classes get this too (unfortunately, not as many as get Armor Training).

(*)But unfortunately it doesn't count as Weapon Focus for feat prerequisites; on the other hand, it does stack with Weapon Focus.

The Martial Versatility and Martial Mastery feats (chain) do make feats like Weapon Focus work for whole weapon groups, but they are gated behind being Human and having Fighter levels (a lot of them in the latter case), although some other classes or archetypes thereof would also be able to access them, and they are pretty much feat taxes -- not for other feats, but as partial insurance in case you lose your golf bag. (The insurance does get better if Combat Stamina is in use in your campaign.)


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Would have been nice for more martial archetypes getting armor training.


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The Kineticist could have been better...
- All shape infusions should have been applied to all elements; Electric Blast barely has some.
- Strength should have been used for Physical Blast attack rolls
- Dexterity should have been used for Energy Blast attack rolls
- Kinetic Blade and Whip should have been nerfed, because they eclipsed melee manufactured weapons completely. I swear, there's NO reason to use a sword when your Earth-based club can outclass it.

Shadow Lodge

JiCi wrote:

The Kineticist could have been better...

...
- Kinetic Blade and Whip should have been nerfed, because they eclipsed melee manufactured weapons completely. I swear, there's NO reason to use a sword when your Earth-based club can outclass it.

Isn't 'you don't need to carry a mundane weapon' is the entire point of those talents? What would be the point of them existing if using a mundane weapon is just better?

That being said, wielding a manufactured weapon does allow you to actually threaten your target after the end of your turn and might be very useful against foes with annoying DRs/Resistances for your chosen elements, so there actually are reasons to keep such a weapon handy...


Dragon78 wrote:
Would have been nice for more martial archetypes getting armor training.

. . . And especially Weapon Training, since Advanced Weapon Training is where most of the good stuff is.


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What I'm hearing is, "It would have been cool if the only good things a fighter has was given to other classes."


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
JiCi wrote:

The Kineticist could have been better...

...
- Kinetic Blade and Whip should have been nerfed, because they eclipsed melee manufactured weapons completely. I swear, there's NO reason to use a sword when your Earth-based club can outclass it.

Isn't 'you don't need to carry a mundane weapon' is the entire point of those talents? What would be the point of them existing if using a mundane weapon is just better?

That being said, wielding a manufactured weapon does allow you to actually threaten your target after the end of your turn and might be very useful against foes with annoying DRs/Resistances for your chosen elements, so there actually are reasons to keep such a weapon handy...

You cannot...

- maintain the blade/whip to avoid manifesting it every single round.
- enhance them from +1 to +5, nor give it any enhancement with talents or items.
- apply your Strength modifier to melee damage rolls.
- cannot HOLD a weapon, because Gathering Power requires both hands free.

Yes, there's Energize Weapon, but trading a melee touch attack for less damage is just stupid.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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Andostre wrote:
What I'm hearing is, "It would have been cool if the only good things a fighter has was given to other classes."

Disciple of the Pike Cavalier, Molthuni Arsenal Champion, Swashbuckler, Armored Battlemage Magus, Mymidarch Magus, Steel Blood Bloodrager, Yojimbo Samurai, and Masked Maiden Vigilante all say hi.

Afraid that ship sailed some time ago.


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More Hobgoblin feats other than the Demoralizing Lash feat chain


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More Dhampir feats other then ones related to blood drain.

Scarab Sages

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More of it, since the reason I dropped my subscription to everything was the move to 2e.


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Baron Iveagh wrote:
More of it, since the reason I dropped my subscription to everything was the move to 2e.

^

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm guessing that's dead in the water, considering recent events.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm guessing that's dead in the water, considering recent events.

Yeah... Was already pretty low probability of getting new PF1 stuff, but now it's nearly impossible


I would have been surprised if Paizo made any more 1e products...now with the recent news I would say never.

Too bad we never got pocket versions of the remaining 1e hardcover books.


I assume those weren't selling well to warrant reprints ^^;

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

Isn't 'you don't need to carry a mundane weapon' is the entire point of those talents? What would be the point of them existing if using a mundane weapon is just better?

That being said, wielding a manufactured weapon does allow you to actually threaten your target after the end of your turn and might be very useful against foes with annoying DRs/Resistances for your chosen elements, so there actually are reasons to keep such a weapon handy...

Something just hit me: Kineticists should have gotten the equivalent of a Solarian Crystal, maybe in the shape of a handle.


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Melkiador wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm guessing that's dead in the water, considering recent events.
Yeah... Was already pretty low probability of getting new PF1 stuff, but now it's nearly impossible

Am I the only one who thinks MAYBE they could be enough crazy and caring to try saving the First Edition from being swallowed whole?


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Bardess wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm guessing that's dead in the water, considering recent events.
Yeah... Was already pretty low probability of getting new PF1 stuff, but now it's nearly impossible
Am I the only one who thinks MAYBE they could be enough crazy and caring to try saving the First Edition from being swallowed whole?

Not sure exactly what you mean. I think Paizo is going to send their lawyers after the OGL 1.0a being deauthorized regardless. That's assuming that WotC doesn't try to pivot, but I think their heels are pretty planted in deauthorizing, so it will need to be settled in court.


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I wish we got unchained versions of Cleric, Fighter, Sorcerer.....hell maybe all the core classes plus Samurai and Ninja.

Still mad we never got that Cha based spontaneous Druid caster class.

I really wish we got a better Shifter. So much potential lost on that one.


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I've heard it opined that introducing the "Stamina and Combat Tricks" rules and then encouraging GM's to give Fighters free access to those feats was Paizo's version of an Unchained Fighter.

I guess in this way, GMs could give this Unchained perk to any melee class they felt was lacking.


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I didn't care much for the Stamina/combat tricks rules. Still would have preferred an actual Unchained Fighter. Also unchained versions of Shaman and Swashbuckler as well.


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The Stamina system had some good ideas, but it seemed half-baked (in particular, many things running you out of Stamina very quickly).

Also, by a remarkable coincidence, What Classes Do You Wish Got The Unchained Treatment?.


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Azothath's Homebrew: Combat Expertise


I still think many classes should have gotten increases to speed as they level...Bard(+10), Kineticisit(+10 to +30), Magus(+10), Ninja(at least +30), Ranger(+10), Rogue(+30), Shifter(+20), Slayer(+20), Swashbuckler(+20).


Dragon78 wrote:
I still think many classes should have gotten increases to speed as they level...Bard(+10), Kineticisit(+10 to +30), Magus(+10), Ninja(at least +30), Ranger(+10), Rogue(+30), Shifter(+20), Slayer(+20), Swashbuckler(+20).

Maybe more for bards. Sir Robin bravely ran away after all :)

Dark Archive

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Dragon78 wrote:
I still think many classes should have gotten increases to speed as they level...Bard(+10), Kineticisit(+10 to +30), Magus(+10), Ninja(at least +30), Ranger(+10), Rogue(+30), Shifter(+20), Slayer(+20), Swashbuckler(+20).

Disagree.

There are spells and magic items for that

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Most maps are closets anyway, the speed is usually wasted.


I have played plenty of maps that are large enough for mobility based combat...depends on the AP.


I really just wanted a Monk focused on Vital Strike rather than Flurry of Blows.

It's unarmed strike scales in damage as it levels; Vital Strike is perfect for it, IMHO.

Give it Improved Vital Strike at Level 8 and Greater Vital Strike at 16, in place of Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Greater Two Weapon Fighting respectively.

To make it even better, let it hit in an AoE, like a scaling Amulet of Quaking Strikes.

Hell, Amulet of Quaking Strikes should have been a Combat Feat similar to Stunning Fist, where Monks inherently get more daily use out of it, but this Monk archetype gets it for free.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
I have played plenty of maps that are large enough for mobility based combat...depends on the AP.

For the first round or two, then the party ends up within 30ft of the enemy for the rest of it.


Considering the Rogue needs to flank than giving them better mobility to do so makes sense....hell there isn't even a Rogue Talent that gives better movement and the Fleet feat gives only +5ft. Yeah I know you can take Fleet multiple times but you need the other feats for other things.

Also you would think a Ninja would be as fast as a Monk.


Dragon78 wrote:

"Extra" feats are not that strong, feats I think are strong are some meta-magic feats, item creation feats, and especially the leadership feat.

So is there a Extra Ki Power feat from 3rd party?

Yes.


Dragon78 wrote:
So what are the classes, class options, race options, feats , spells, archetypes, etc. that you wished Paizo had done before 1e ended?

Two wishes regarding skills and their interactions with the rest of the game.

1. Certain low-level spells nicely complemented skills: Jump, Find Traps, and Identify, for example, gave large bonuses to some uses of existing skills, which was a great way to update these venerable spells to a modern edition. But I wish Comprehend Languages, Charm Person, Disguise Self, and perhaps even Cure Light Wounds and Invisibility had done the same, rather than making, respectively, portions of Linguistics, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, and Stealth skills mostly irrelevant.

2. The number of skills from 3.0 to PF1.0 was cut in half, and everyone got between one and three more skill points per level, and even more ways to boost skills were introduced - but DCs for skill checks didn't increase from 3.0 to PF1.0, which made things like e.g. Glyph of Warding, and most other spell-based and RAW-enviroment-based, DCs too easy to beat.


I wish the kineticist positive blast healed a living target but once in a 24 hour period like the healing hex does. Also wish that all the other kinetic blasts had a cool ability like that. Maybe fire sets things on fire on a failed reflex save, water could put out small fires and deal full damage underwater, electric would stun on a successful crit(fort save), etc.


Style Master Feats so if you have all 3 of the dragon style feats you can take dragon master, etc. Such a feat would increase benefits from the other feats in the chain, so AC, damage, DCs, range, area effect, uses for limited use abilities, etc. would be increased.


Would have been cool if you got a feat every level or at least a trait at the even levels.


Dragon78 wrote:

I wish we got unchained versions of Cleric, Fighter, Sorcerer.....hell maybe all the core classes plus Samurai and Ninja.

...
I really wish we got a better Shifter. So much potential lost on that one.

Reading this old post made me think, what would the unchained cleric even be like. The problem is that the cleric is already a strong caster. It really doesn't need much in the way of class abilities to stay relevant. So, how do you give them more toys without breaking balance? You can't really take away the channeling or spontaneous casting, because those exist to keep the class from being pressured to prepare only heals. About the only thing you could do would be to overhaul domains. And I don't think you could do much with that without just adding more powerful abilities to a class that didn't really need more powerful abilities.

The Shifter is why you probably don't want an unchained fighter. We can see where Paizo's head was at in that stage of the game, and it wouldn't have ended up with a fighter or samurai that any of us wanted. There's a reason we have the meme about martials not getting nice things.


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I would’ve like Paizo to double down on adventures and worry less about making 2e.

Personally, I followed pathfinder because I love 3.5, and enjoyed the smaller system changes paizo did to streamline skills and such. But mostly because I loved the published adventures, and eventually the world building that followed.

I’m not sure how a business could avoid rules bloat and such, so I understand the need to develop a new system in order to create more product. I think starfinder was a good avenue for this, and other product lines could have been explored before a new system was created. But I don’t run a big business, with employees dependent on me. And I know that there are holdover problems from 3.5, etc that many wanted to address.

I honestly haven’t looked too far into 2e, but from what I’ve seen it changed the system too much for my tastes.


I wish Paizo didn't continue the AP numbers from 1e to 2e, they should have started back at volume 1.


Melkiador wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

I wish we got unchained versions of Cleric, Fighter, Sorcerer.....hell maybe all the core classes plus Samurai and Ninja.

...
I really wish we got a better Shifter. So much potential lost on that one.

Reading this old post made me think, what would the unchained cleric even be like. The problem is that the cleric is already a strong caster. It really doesn't need much in the way of class abilities to stay relevant. So, how do you give them more toys without breaking balance? You can't really take away the channeling or spontaneous casting, because those exist to keep the class from being pressured to prepare only heals. About the only thing you could do would be to overhaul domains. And I don't think you could do much with that without just adding more powerful abilities to a class that didn't really need more powerful abilities.

{. . .}

Trade out some raw power for more variety of features (really, the Cleric should have been a remix of Warpriest = d8, 3/4 BAB, 6/9 caster, and then we should have had a separate d6, 1/2 BAB, 9/9 caster). Some smaller changes (probably to do at the same time as the above): Move Channel Energy from a core ability to a Domain ability. Also rebuild Domains to be more like mini-Mysteries (using Oracle as a guide). If you don't have use for Channel Energy, don't pick that Revelation.


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I would have loved to see a re-balancing of the Variant Multiclass Rules. Some of the classes are fine, some are useless.


Third Party publisher idea thread

Post ORC we could get a PF1.5 3PP...

"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ product numbers, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.” Oh-my Shazamm


Andostre wrote:
I would have loved to see a re-balancing of the Variant Multiclass Rules. Some of the classes are fine, some are useless.

Hear, hear. Also add VMC for classes (quite a lot of them) that came out after VMC. Actually, backporting 2nd Edition multiclass archetypes to 1st Edition would be a good way to go (2nd Edition isn't ALL bad -- it just lost a lot of flavor and options of 1st Edition, but it still has some stuff worth adopting).

Unbegreiflich wrote:

Third Party publisher idea thread

Post ORC we could get a PF1.5 3PP...

"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ product numbers, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.” Oh-my Shazamm

Actually, creating a new thread for this (and linking it here) would be not a bad idea.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
Andostre wrote:
I would have loved to see a re-balancing of the Variant Multiclass Rules. Some of the classes are fine, some are useless.
Hear, hear. Also add VMC for classes (quite a lot of them) that came out after VMC. Actually, backporting 2nd Edition multiclass archetypes to 1st Edition would be a good way to go (2nd Edition isn't ALL bad -- it just lost a lot of flavor and options of 1st Edition, but it still has some stuff worth adopting).

Can you summarize how 2nd Edition handles it?

Shadow Lodge

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Andostre wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Andostre wrote:
I would have loved to see a re-balancing of the Variant Multiclass Rules. Some of the classes are fine, some are useless.
Hear, hear. Also add VMC for classes (quite a lot of them) that came out after VMC. Actually, backporting 2nd Edition multiclass archetypes to 1st Edition would be a good way to go (2nd Edition isn't ALL bad -- it just lost a lot of flavor and options of 1st Edition, but it still has some stuff worth adopting).
Can you summarize how 2nd Edition handles it?

They basically took the D&D4e approach: You generally have to spend one of your class feats to get a baseline ability or two, and then can spend future class feats on feats from the other class.

Unlike PF1e VMC, you don't have to take all the features of the second class, but when you do take a feature, you are losing actual abilities from your primary class rather than a generic feat slot.


If you got a feat every level then the variant multi-class rules would have worked better.....also it would have been cool to get a feat every level especially for feat trees and other issues.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Andostre wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Andostre wrote:
I would have loved to see a re-balancing of the Variant Multiclass Rules. Some of the classes are fine, some are useless.
Hear, hear. Also add VMC for classes (quite a lot of them) that came out after VMC. Actually, backporting 2nd Edition multiclass archetypes to 1st Edition would be a good way to go (2nd Edition isn't ALL bad -- it just lost a lot of flavor and options of 1st Edition, but it still has some stuff worth adopting).
Can you summarize how 2nd Edition handles it?

They basically took the D&D4e approach: You generally have to spend one of your class feats to get a baseline ability or two, and then can spend future class feats on feats from the other class.

Unlike PF1e VMC, you don't have to take all the features of the second class, but when you do take a feature, you are losing actual abilities from your primary class rather than a generic feat slot.

Ha, I'm even less familiar with 4E than I am with PF2.

But I can't picture what this would look like for PF1. Would I trade out the Bloodrager 3rd level ability Blood Sanctuary for virtually any other class' ability? In a hearbeat. But most of the other classes' 3rd level powers don't compare. Mercy? A bloodline power? A monk's fast movement? I guess a wizard's equivalent is spells per day advancement?

My point is that most class abilities aren't balanced against each other like feats (arguably) are. Unless... are the class abilities not really traded in, but merely somehow delayed?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I do like how you can just give free feats at every level as a GM if you want. Herolab having the option was really helpful for the Hells Rebels subsystem that granted bonus feats.


Hell's Rebels subsystem grants bonus feats?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Yep, the rebellion level granted bonus feats in my playthrough. We had to add them manually but it worked really well.

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