Stuff That You Wish Paizo Had Done For Pathfinder 1E?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andostre wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
All the numbers are made up anyway, be it via some formula or the authors just putting it there.
Nothing matters.


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Bestiary 7, 8, 9, etc.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Andostre wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
All the numbers are made up anyway, be it via some formula or the authors just putting it there.
Nothing matters.

In Nothing, we have Dark Energy, and as we all know from E = mc^2, that means something that is at least convertible into matter . . . I guess nothing really does matter.

And that means that Bestiary 7 should have featured Dark Tapestry creatures . . . .


Rysky wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Yeah, because proficiencies with monsters are selective, like with ONE weapon or ONE suit of armor.
They’re not though, they say “any weapons mentioned in its entry”, so if they have it they’re proficient with it unless the GM decides otherwise.

Yeah, as base creatures...

Also, some types aren't proficient with anything at all, so slapping the fighter's proficiencies with that template would solve that problem.

Silver Crusade

JiCi wrote:
Rysky wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Yeah, because proficiencies with monsters are selective, like with ONE weapon or ONE suit of armor.
They’re not though, they say “any weapons mentioned in its entry”, so if they have it they’re proficient with it unless the GM decides otherwise.

Yeah, as base creatures...

Also, some types aren't proficient with anything at all, so slapping the fighter's proficiencies with that template would solve that problem.

Not sure what that first line is about.

Those “some” are Animal, Magical Beast, Ooze, Plant, Vermin, and Humanoid. So creatures that pretty much won’t be using weapons except for a few select exceptions, and Humanoids take classes.


Well, if a fighter template would add at least 1 CR, wouldn't it be almost exactly identical to adding a figther level on top of an existing creature stat block? I feel likw this is already doable with the present monster advancement rules.


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Rysky wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Rysky wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Yeah, because proficiencies with monsters are selective, like with ONE weapon or ONE suit of armor.
They’re not though, they say “any weapons mentioned in its entry”, so if they have it they’re proficient with it unless the GM decides otherwise.

Yeah, as base creatures...

Also, some types aren't proficient with anything at all, so slapping the fighter's proficiencies with that template would solve that problem.

Not sure what that first line is about.

The class creature templates are, well, templates, not class levels. They took whatever made the classes unique and made them into templates.

The catch is that for the fighter, everything relies on gear. Even slapping this template on a dragon doesn't do much.

EVERY OTHER CLASS FEATURE given by those templates can work without weapons and armors... except the Gunslinger, which isn't available outside of 3rd-party products. The fighter is pointless without weapons and armors, so NOT giving the template the same proficiencies is ridiculous.

Quote:
Those “some” are Animal, Magical Beast, Ooze, Plant, Vermin, and Humanoid. So creatures that pretty much won’t be using weapons except for a few select exceptions, and Humanoids take classes.

Way to outrule an awakened animal, a blight and a treant...


I'm fine with cutting production after 10+ yrs. Paizo gave it a good go. Everyone employed and made money so it was a success. DnD 5 has its fans too so they did okay.


there are the Homebrew forums...


Advanced Races Guide 2 and Ultimate Equipment 2 would have been nice as well.


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I know it is something already trite but I wish they would bring out a manual for epic levels, there are many who wish to continue their adventures with the character they still have alive especially those that put the mythical ability of longevity to their characters


^Doesn't sound trite to me. Although both WotC's Epic rules and Paizo's Mythic rules ended up being poorer in their implementations than in their concepts. I think the problem with both was that they tried to do too much that was different from the base system, making it too complicated to get right on something that wasn't in common use. I think Advancing Beyond 20th Level (seems to be only on d20pfsrd.com, not Archives of Nethys) had close to the right idea -- I'd want to tweak it some, but at least it is simple (maybe even TOO simple, but it's easier to build up from and tweak something simple than to try to clean up a complex thing that has gone awry).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I guess I'd like a Rules Compendium where they do a last pass on classes, items and rules and which incorporates all the errate over the years. I kinda hate that all my first printing books I got immediately when they came out were basically beta releases to what ended up as the real ruleset.


Not a fan of epic levels but give me paragon levels from Diablo 3 that let you improve aspects of your character like stats, BA, saves, HP, skill points, caster level, add special powers, etc.

I agree magnuskin, I would have liked a book like that as well.

Dark Archive

Dragon78 wrote:
Advanced Races Guide 2 and Ultimate Equipment 2 would have been nice as well.

Loved Advanced Races Guide, but Ultimate Equipment was darn close to my least favorite 1e hardcover. (Even Mythic, which I had zero use for, was at least interesting to read through.)

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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From my perspective, the problem with Mythic was that it was impossible to write stand-alone adventures for. Essentially characters had 2 levels. Is the GM dipping their toe into mythic at 15th level, giving players their 1st mythic tier then, or did they follow the book's recommendation, having them be level 15 mythic 7 or 8. I could have made adventures for the latter but it is a question of how far am I splitting the potential audiance.


That the void kineticist element, expanded underwater rules, many monsters, and so much more got reprinted into a hardcover books.


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Pocket versions of the remaining 1e hardcover books(this one they can still do).

A hardcover book that focuses on real world mythology with sections for Aztec, Egyptian, Greek, Japanese, Norse, Chinese, etc. Also each section would give 20 deity pantheons with favored weapon, domains, etc. and other character options.


I think I would have loved a

-Wow based warlock (Pet class that specializes in curses, draining life force and shadow magic)

-a true necromancer class


Dragon78 wrote:

Pocket versions of the remaining 1e hardcover books(this one they can still do).

A hardcover book that focuses on real world mythology with sections for Aztec, Egyptian, Greek, Japanese, Norse, Chinese, etc. Also each section would give 20 deity pantheons with favored weapon, domains, etc. and other character options.

While this would have a hard time avoiding backlash problems in the modern age of enhanced communication, I have to admit I would like to see Deities and Demigods for Pathfinder.

McDaygo wrote:

I think I would have loved a

-Wow based warlock (Pet class that specializes in curses, draining life force and shadow magic)

Witch has specialization in Curses, and Summoner is THE pet class, and Shadow Magic could be done by packing a few feats into class features, so it sounds like you need a Witch-Summoner hybrid with a few Shadow Magic extras.

McDaygo wrote:
-a true necromancer class


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magnuskn wrote:
I guess I'd like a Rules Compendium where they do a last pass on classes, items and rules and which incorporates all the errate over the years. I kinda hate that all my first printing books I got immediately when they came out were basically beta releases to what ended up as the real ruleset.

I’ve said this elsewhere but it merits saying again: I’d have loved to have seen a ‘Rules Compendium.’


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I have said it before as well, so I do agree, a "Rules Compendium" would have been great.


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A Rules Compendium sounds like something that could make for a nice fan project!


Weapon Mod -> Tactically adapted -> Monk quality

Nuff said


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Options for a class to replace certain class feature(s) and choose from a list. No archetypes needed.

Examples

Alchemist

Replace bombs for a companion(aberration, construct, monstrous humanoid, mutant animal, mutant plant, ooze, or mutant vermin), magic dust(various effects), shape shifting, major mutations, etc.

Replace Mutagen for more powerful potions and elixirs(create x/day, no cost), minor mutations, improved use of alchemical items, etc.

Cleric

Replace channel for lay on hands/mercies, kinetic blast(positive or negative energy), divine weapons/armor, celestial animal companion, etc.


-Max HP per HD/LV.
-15-20 point build is actually 15-20 points you can distribute to your base stats(all 10s) as you want.
-+1 ability point per level(from 1st to 20th).
-Max stats(20 +1/2lv)
-All skills are class skills.
-All classes have at least 4+Int mod skill points.
-Add 1/2 your level to your AC/touch AC/FF AC.
-+2 to base saves.
-No favored class bonuses.
-No traits.
-No full attack action, you can get all attacks even if you move.
-Anyone can use wands.
-Staves and wands have daily charges that recharge once each day.
-Wands use the user's level/casting stat like staves.
-Use AC instead of CMD.
-No amulets of natural armor, cloaks of resistance, rings of protection (or at least different versions).
-No stat increasing magic items(or different versions).
-Magic weapons/armor/shields are never just regular +# items, always have something(at will cantrip, detect specific monster type/subtype, turns green when near poison, can change into other item(s), etc.
-Monk-like AC option for any class that has armor prof. casters use their casting stat, martials(with no casting) and kineticist use Con.
-Force armor(Su)(constant mage armor that increases by +1 at level 6 and every 3 levels after) for Arcanist, Psychics, Sorcerers, Witches, and Wizards.
-Brawlers, Monks, and Shifters gained a an enhancement bonus(+1 at 3rd/4th an additional +1 every 4 levels after) to their unarmed strike/natural attacks.
-All caster classes have cantrips.
-Fighters get at least a few free exotic weapon prof.
-All spontaneous casters get 1 additional spell known per spell level.
-All casters get 3 extra 1st level spell slots.
-Rogues and Swashbucklers got Dex to damage.
-That combat maneuvers didn't provoke(if you have +1BAB).
-That power attack, power shot, and combat expertise was built into the combat rules, no feats needed.
-That the heal skill could heal some damage.
-Jump DCs were lower.
-More powerful alchemical items.
-All races got +2 to two set stats, no penalty(humans +2 to any two) with an option for an additional +2/-2 nod.
-Better formula for tumble DCs.
-Free ranks in 2-4 skills(craft, knowledge, perform, and profession only).
-No leadership feat(or at least a different version).
-Weapon finesse is a weapon trait, no feat needed.


Dragon78 wrote:

-Max HP per HD/LV.

-15-20 point build is actually 15-20 points you can distribute to your base stats(all 10s) as you want.
-+1 ability point per level(from 1st to 20th).
-Max stats(20 +1/2lv)
-All skills are class skills.
-All classes have at least 4+Int mod skill points.
-Add 1/2 your level to your AC/touch AC/FF AC.
-+2 to base saves.
-No favored class bonuses.
-No traits.
-No full attack action, you can get all attacks even if you move.
-Anyone can use wands.
-Staves and wands have daily charges that recharge once each day.
-Wands use the user's level/casting stat like staves.
-Use AC instead of CMD.
-No amulets of natural armor, cloaks of resistance, rings of protection (or at least different versions).
-No stat increasing magic items(or different versions).
-Magic weapons/armor/shields are never just regular +# items, always have something(at will cantrip, detect specific monster type/subtype, turns green when near poison, can change into other item(s), etc.
-Monk-like AC option for any class that has armor prof. casters use their casting stat, martials(with no casting) and kineticist use Con.
-Force armor(Su)(constant mage armor that increases by +1 at level 6 and every 3 levels after) for Arcanist, Psychics, Sorcerers, Witches, and Wizards.
-Brawlers, Monks, and Shifters gained a an enhancement bonus(+1 at 3rd/4th an additional +1 every 4 levels after) to their unarmed strike/natural attacks.
-All caster classes have cantrips.
-Fighters get at least a few free exotic weapon prof.
-All spontaneous casters get 1 additional spell known per spell level.
-All casters get 3 extra 1st level spell slots.
-Rogues and Swashbucklers got Dex to damage.
-That combat maneuvers didn't provoke(if you have +1BAB).
-That power attack, power shot, and combat expertise was built into the combat rules, no feats needed.
-That the heal skill could heal some damage.
-Jump DCs were lower.
-More powerful alchemical items.
-All races got +2 to two set stats, no penalty(humans +2 to any two) with an...

This sounds like a different game.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also sounds like stuff you can already make house rules


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Dragon78 wrote:

-Max HP per HD/LV.

-15-20 point build is actually 15-20 points you can distribute to your base stats(all 10s) as you want.
-+1 ability point per level(from 1st to 20th).
-Max stats(20 +1/2lv)
-All skills are class skills.
-All classes have at least 4+Int mod skill points.
-Add 1/2 your level to your AC/touch AC/FF AC.
-+2 to base saves.
-No favored class bonuses.
-No traits.
-No full attack action, you can get all attacks even if you move.
-Anyone can use wands.
-Staves and wands have daily charges that recharge once each day.
-Wands use the user's level/casting stat like staves.
-Use AC instead of CMD.
-No amulets of natural armor, cloaks of resistance, rings of protection (or at least different versions).
-No stat increasing magic items(or different versions).
-Magic weapons/armor/shields are never just regular +# items, always have something(at will cantrip, detect specific monster type/subtype, turns green when near poison, can change into other item(s), etc.
-Monk-like AC option for any class that has armor prof. casters use their casting stat, martials(with no casting) and kineticist use Con.
-Force armor(Su)(constant mage armor that increases by +1 at level 6 and every 3 levels after) for Arcanist, Psychics, Sorcerers, Witches, and Wizards.
-Brawlers, Monks, and Shifters gained a an enhancement bonus(+1 at 3rd/4th an additional +1 every 4 levels after) to their unarmed strike/natural attacks.
-All caster classes have cantrips.
-Fighters get at least a few free exotic weapon prof.
-All spontaneous casters get 1 additional spell known per spell level.
-All casters get 3 extra 1st level spell slots.
-Rogues and Swashbucklers got Dex to damage.
-That combat maneuvers didn't provoke(if you have +1BAB).
-That power attack, power shot, and combat expertise was built into the combat rules, no feats needed.
-That the heal skill could heal some damage.
-Jump DCs were lower.
-More powerful alchemical items.
-All races got +2 to two set stats, no penalty(humans +2 to any two) with an...

I like how you’ve put so much thought into this, even if don’t agree with all of them.


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I would have reworked the Wyvarans...
- Medium Humanoid (Kobold)
- Drakobold (whatever :P )
- +2 STR, -2 Dex, +2 Con
- Energy resistance equal to character level
- Energy affiny equal to +1/4 character level
- Gliding wings
- Normal tail (no slap)
- +2 Natural armor
- +2 resistance to paralysis and sleep

Possible alternate racial traits
- 2 claws
- bite
- tail slap
- flying wings
- draconic physiology for Intimidation and Diplomacy
- Spiked tail and winged arms (Wyvern and Drake)

Kobolds are supposed to be close to True Dragons... so the Wyvarans being closer to Wyverns as experiments feels... awkward.


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Personally I would have preferred something closer to the Dragonborn or a more human version that is a dragon version of Aasimar/Tiefling.


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Dragon78 wrote:
Personally I would have preferred something closer to the Dragonborn or a more human version that is a dragon version of Aasimar/Tiefling.

This is essentially what I would have loved to see. However, due to conflicting rights and such, the closest thing Paizo could have done is to expand with the kobolds.


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They could have had a modified player race of half-dragon, that way you could have ones that are more human and ones that are more dragon-like and have a single race.


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Dragon78 wrote:
They could have had a modified player race of half-dragon, that way you could have ones that are more human and ones that are more dragon-like and have a single race.

The issue is taht the dragonborn is pretty much ingrained in any D&D/PF player and GM alike now. They were rare in 3E, common in 4E, uncommon in 5E... until Critical Role put dragonborns in the spotlight.

I get that half-dragons are borderline "hated" by Paizo, but there is no issue in giving people options to play one. It's like they felt every single PF game would be dropped if their respective GMs wouldn't allow "dragonborns".


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That is a problem I had with Paizo about the mentality that we will not give you the option if we don't want it on Golarion even if the books are setting neutral.


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Dragon78 wrote:
That is a problem I had with Paizo about the mentality that we will not give you the option if we don't want it on Golarion even if the books are setting neutral.

Well, many of the Player's Companions were region-specific though.

But yeah, a playable half-dragon substitute that isn't the kobold would have been appreciated.


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Alternatively, what about Kobolds that aren't pathetic?

Dark Archive

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Alternatively, what about Kobolds that aren't pathetic?

Yeah, a 'Wyrmkin' sub-species of kobold that was infused with just a tad of half-dragon, enough to give them more PC-race-like stats and abilities, could have been awesome.

Add a size Medium version that has reached a century or more in age (like sharks, they don't get older, they just get *bigger!*), and some versatility based on their 'color' (fire resistance 5 and smoke vision for red wyrmkin, cold resistance 5 and icewalking for white wyrmkin, acid resistance 5 and a swim speed / hold breath for black wyrmkin, etc.) and it could be fun.

And they could go on to *really* old versions (or mutants) that are size Large or even Huge, making them scalable threats that could function as both PCs (at sizes S or M) or higher tier monsters (sizes L and above) like giants and regular dragons.

My own fanon was that 'wyrmkin' were the ancestral species behind kobolds, and did not breed true among themselves (producing normal kobolds when they tried), but where only born from unfertilized dragon eggs, which true dragons produced every year (with a number of wyrmkin hatching from each egg equal to the number of HD a wyrmling dragon of that type would have). Some dragons smashed unfertilized eggs, or ate the resultant wyrmkin, rather than putting up with wyrmkin servants or worshippers, others exploited them ruthlessly, others drove them away, but only chromatic dragons produced wyrmkin (because I didn't want there to be metallic wyrmkin, no other reason!)... :)


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Alternatively, what about Kobolds that aren't pathetic?

Kobolds are just physically weak and unviable. I wouldn't call them "pathetic" when they are masters at trap-making and look as smart as humans. Hey, they say that they descended from dragons, pretty sure that they don't want to be dumber than those XD

Wyvaran racial traits to trade their wyvern traits for true dragon traits would have been appreciated.

On a sidenote, in D&D, the kobold deity got promoted into the Core pantheon as the God of Traps. Also in D&D, kobolds could be of any alignment (Good ones being rarer though) as they match their patron true dragon, including metallic dragons.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like kobolds should have been promoted to Core races instead of goblins...


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We could have had playable kobolds that just had better stats. But kobolds are not the dragon player race I am looking for. Personally I never like Wyvarans or any of the races created for Advanced Race Guide.


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Dragon78 wrote:
We could have had playable kobolds that just had better stats. But kobolds are not the dragon player race I am looking for. Personally I never like Wyvarans or any of the races created for Advanced Race Guide.

Nothing prevents you from making a kobold Medium (and offsetting its stats). Kobolds seem to suffer the same discrimination as goblins because 1) they're often evil and 2) they're Small. Like the I said, back in D&D, kobolds could match any true dragon's alignment (including good ones).

It wouldn't be that offputting to have a good Paladin kobold of Apsu.


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I could make a lot of things but the thread is about what we wish Paizo had done;)


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I always got the impression that Paizo wanted to stay away from a dragonborn style race for branding reasons. My understanding is that branding is one of the reasons they made their version of goblins a PC race for 2E.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Andostre wrote:
I always got the impression that Paizo wanted to stay away from a dragonborn style race for branding reasons. My understanding is that branding is one of the reasons they made their version of goblins a PC race for 2E.

I think Wyvarans are as close as Paizo ever plans to get to dragonborn.


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I think you are right Andostre, they only did the Wyvaran because there were enough people asking for a player dragon race. Though a dragon race that was more like the dragon(also wanted fey and giant) version of Aasimar and Tiefling would have been better.


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Mebbe someone could homebrew a medium Kobold analogue for Kobolds, similar to how something "created" Hobgoblins from Goblins?


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^What should we call them? Hobkobolds? Unpathetic Kobolds? Okaykobolds?

Although at least Pathfinder Goblins aren't totally pathetic, in the way that Zerglings aren't pathetic . . . .

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