[Coronavirus] The best defense is ...

[Lord Fyre]

I know it's not "sexy", but ...

The best defense against the Coronavirus is the same one we should be using against the Flu.

[AngryNerdRageDemon]

literallyrefusetoreadanythingbutthispartofthetitle wrote:

The best defense is...

... BEING INCREDIBLY OFFENSIVE!!! Rawr grawr anger!

(P-... pretty sure that’s right? Oh, well, close enough!)

[Tacticslion]

But more seriously, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - so do the hand washing thing, please!

Stay safe, everyone! :)

[Sir RicHunt Attenwampi]

Clearly, the best defense is to go on the offense and drink enough Corona beer to kill all the germs & viruses inside you.

{clicks Buy on beer futures in retirement fund}

[Cap'n Yesterday, FaWtL Tourism]

The wuhan virus ain't nothin to f$@& with!

[DeathQuaker]

It's also worth noting that in the U.S. you are still more likely to catch and die from the flu than get coronavirus. So you should already be engaging in good hygiene to avoid flu transmission (even if the vaccine helps protect you, it is not always 100% effective due to the way flu mutates, plus it always helps everyone not to pass germs on your hand to doors, etc.), and then you are automatically also doing the thing that will slow the spread of novel coronavirus.

[Tacticslion]

DeathQuaker wrote:

It's also worth noting that in the U.S. you are still more likely to catch and die from the flu than get coronavirus. So you should already be engaging in good hygiene to avoid flu transmission (even if the vaccine helps protect you, it is not always 100% effective due to the way flu mutates, plus it always helps everyone not to pass germs on your hand to doors, etc.), and then you are automatically also doing the thing that will slow the spread of novel coronavirus.

^^^This thing^^^

[Quark Blast]

How Bad Will the Coronavirus Outbreak Get?
Here Are 6 Key Factors
Actually ^^^ This ^^^ thing :D

[Lord Fyre]

Quark Blast wrote:

How Bad Will the Coronavirus Outbreak Get?

Here Are 6 Key Factors
Actually ^^^ This ^^^ thing :D

While true. That doesn't contradict my original posting that "Flu Prevention" is still our best defense against this Coronavirus.

[thejeff]

DeathQuaker wrote:

It's also worth noting that in the U.S. you are still more likely to catch and die from the flu than get coronavirus. So you should already be engaging in good hygiene to avoid flu transmission (even if the vaccine helps protect you, it is not always 100% effective due to the way flu mutates, plus it always helps everyone not to pass germs on your hand to doors, etc.), and then you are automatically also doing the thing that will slow the spread of novel coronavirus.

Not to contradict the advice, but while the flu is certainly a larger risk today, that might not be true in a even a few weeks. We're still very early in this outbreak and it's not clear what's going to happen. It could be contained and pose little risk outside of Wuhan. It could mutate to a less dangerous former. Or it could easily get established in the world population and rise to the same level of exposure as the regular flu. Since our current understanding is that it's more serious than the usual flu, that could pose much more risk than the flu. Plus no vaccine and no partial immunity from similar past viruses.

We're not there yet, but it's a serious possibility. Since this seems to have similar transmission routes as the normal flu and we're not able to contain that, I'm not feeling too confident this time.

[captain yesterday]

We lived in Seattle during the SARS outbreak (my wife was pregnant even) that was pretty scary.

[Quark Blast]

What thejeff says. Though it's always a good idea to do the hygiene thing.
USA, Russia, China, etc. are all working towards developing a vaccine - human trials start this summer sometime. Another two weeks or a little less and we'll know what we're up against (barring some crazy mutation one way or another) and will be able to model the outbreak well and thus come up with a coordinated action plan.

[Tacticslion]

Quark Blast wrote:

How Bad Will the Coronavirus Outbreak Get?

Here Are 6 Key Factors
Actually ^^^ This ^^^ thing :D

XD

The article QB linked wrote:

To avoid any viral illness, experts advise washing your hands frequently and avoiding your office or school when you’re sick. Most healthy people don’t need masks, and hoarding them may contribute to shortages for health workers who do need them, experts say.

I mean, the entire point of DQ's post is that:

- 1) at this exact moment (when she made the post) the flu is worse
- 2) even more importantly, basic protocol for flu prevention is exactly the same thing that you should be doing, like, right now

So. Editing to hopefully make everyone unable to, "Well actually..."

DeathQuaker, barely edited wrote:

So you should already be engaging in good hygiene to avoid flu transmission (even if the vaccine helps protect you, it is not always 100% effective due to the way flu mutates, plus it always helps everyone not to pass germs on your hand to doors, etc.), and then you are automatically also doing the thing that will slow the spread of novel coronavirus.

Tacticslion wrote:

^^^This thing^^^

For the love of whatever you love, wash your hands, practice good hygiene, and try not to pass on whatever you got or pick it up from others.

We don't need to be afraid of germs, but we need to respect ourselves, others, and the germs and take good measures. Regardless of the outcome of this, this is the lesson everyone should be taking away: practice doing the right thing.

Stay safe! :D

[Tacticslion]

In unrelated news, I find myself missing the Discord emojis. Dang it.

[Gorbacz]

Thoughts and prayers.

[DeathQuaker]

Tacticslion wrote:

Quark Blast wrote:

How Bad Will the Coronavirus Outbreak Get?

Here Are 6 Key Factors
Actually ^^^ This ^^^ thing :D

XD

The article QB linked wrote:

To avoid any viral illness, experts advise washing your hands frequently and avoiding your office or school when you’re sick. Most healthy people don’t need masks, and hoarding them may contribute to shortages for health workers who do need them, experts say.

I mean, the entire point of DQ's post is that:

- 1) at this exact moment (when she made the post) the flu is worse
- 2) even more importantly, basic protocol for flu prevention is exactly the same thing that you should be doing, like, right now

So. Editing to hopefully make everyone unable to, "Well actually..."

DeathQuaker, barely edited wrote:

So you should already be engaging in good hygiene to avoid flu transmission (even if the vaccine helps protect you, it is not always 100% effective due to the way flu mutates, plus it always helps everyone not to pass germs on your hand to doors, etc.), and then you are automatically also doing the thing that will slow the spread of novel coronavirus.

Tacticslion wrote:

^^^This thing^^^

For the love of whatever you love, wash your hands, practice good hygiene, and try not to pass on whatever you got or pick it up from others.

We don't need to be afraid of germs, but we need to respect ourselves, others, and the germs and take good measures. Regardless of the outcome of this, this is the lesson everyone should be taking away: practice doing the right thing.

Stay safe! :D

This. This is not the thread to have a dick measuring contest over who has best advice/knowledge.

Whether coronavirus becomes the deadliest outbreak in the world or is safely contained, you should be washing your motherf$$@ing hands either way (and otherwise behaving sensibly).

[thejeff]

DeathQuaker wrote:

This. This is not the thread to have a dick measuring contest over who has best advice/knowledge.

Whether coronavirus becomes the deadliest outbreak in the world or is safely contained, you should be washing your motherf&%@ing hands either way (and otherwise behaving sensibly).

Absolutely. I only commented because I find the "killed less than the regular flu" line of argument tends to lead more to complacency than to better handwashing practice.

[DeathQuaker]

The flu is a virulent, potentially deadly disease that has already killed 2,400 people in the United States between October and December (the number has no doubt gone up since). According to the CDC (same link), it also killed 61,000 people in the U.S. last year, and according to WHO it kills between 259,000 and 600,000 people annually worldwide. You're right, people too often don't take it seriously enough because it is commonplace and happens every year. The press doesn't publicize flu deaths the way it does for "new" diseases, because lots of people dying is only newsworthy if it's from a new thing, right? People who don't take precautions against the flu are already taking their life--or that of others, where they may be carriers to more vulnerable persons, like children and elders--into their hands. Such individuals are unlikely to change should 2019-nCov land here, and that apathy/inability to act and take care of oneself is the biggest problem to combat.

Absolutely f%++ing no one is suggesting nCov is not dangerous. It is spreading very rapidly, and has killed 259 people worldwide to date.

The point is to take ALL epidemics seriously and take care of yourself, and encourage others to do the same.

And I promise, thejeff, your knowledge dick is still the biggest, okay?

[thejeff]

Sorry. We're talking past each other somehow. Knowledge dick measuring is not my intent here.

[Freehold DM]

takes out all manner of measuring equipment

DeathQuaker wrote:

This is not the thread to have a dick measuring contest over who has best advice/knowledge.

*sigh*

shoves measuring equipment back into the basement, dejectedly

[Freehold DM]

DeathQuaker wrote:

And I promise, thejeff, your knowledge dick is still the biggest, okay?

kicks rock

[1d4 Ice Weasels]

Freehold DM wrote:

takes out all manner of measuring equipment

DeathQuaker wrote:

This is not the thread to have a dick measuring contest over who has best advice/knowledge.

*sigh*

shoves measuring equipment back into the basement, dejectedly

Is that a brannock device in your basement, or are you just happy it's winter?

Freehold DM wrote:

kicks rock

Great idea! {1d4 ⇒ 3 ice weasels kick Kid Rock}

[Tacticslion]

Hey, speaking of more information about this, 'cause why not,

What We Know About the New Coronavirus, Don't Panic

Quote:

The WHO has declared the new coronavirus a global public health emergency—but that doesn't mean you should panic.

I mean, this is nothing new, but SciShow requires linking, and it reemphasizes that basic maintenance is good and panicking isn't something that should be done.

[Quark Blast]

thejeff wrote:

DeathQuaker wrote:

This. This is not the thread to have a dick measuring contest over who has best advice/knowledge.

Whether coronavirus becomes the deadliest outbreak in the world or is safely contained, you should be washing your motherf&%@ing hands either way (and otherwise behaving sensibly).

Absolutely. I only commented because I find the "killed less than the regular flu" line of argument tends to lead more to complacency than to better handwashing practice.

My uncle worked at a major firm in a large city and on the floor his cube was on was the marketing group, the accounting group, and the lawyers. His unofficial tally was the accounting group always washed their hands, the marketing group usually did, and the lawyers almost never did even when coming out of a stall.

When we have an epidemic that affects hundreds of millions (soon to be a pandemic that effects billions?), you'll end up with "average" human behavior in regards to best sanitary practices. Meaning if this virus has the potential to go pandemic, it will.

The part that worries me is two-fold:
1) The death rate seems about 40x the regular flu
2) The hospitalization rate seems about 1,000x the regular flu

My guess is that item 2) is causing item 1) to be about 20x higher than it would otherwise be. I hope... otherwise, assuming pandemic, it's very likely people I know will die sometime later this year.

[Tacticslion]

Sony’s our if PAX East ‘cause they don’t want to be served Corona

[saramarie otc]

The best defenses IMHO:
~Robust universal healthcare system where people are not financially destabilized because they sought treatment for colds, flus, coronavirus, or other contagious illnesses.
~Employee sick time and adequate staffing to ensure everyone, from grocery store cashiers to waitstaff in restaurants to teachers and cleaning staff are able to take adequate paid time off when sick or when acting as a caregiver to someone who is sick.
~Minimum wage being brought up to a livable wage, and either robust social programs or UBI to support people who do not or cannot work.
~Encouraging people to set the following behaviors as social norms: coughing & sneezing into elbows instead of hands, washing hands frequently and always before meals, self-quarantining when sick, overtime as a rarity rather than a necessity.

[thejeff]

Funding the healthcare system so that there's enough spare capacity to cope with hospital needs in early stages of an outbreak. A good part of the reason there are so many deaths in Wuhan is that there just aren't enough hospital beds and respirators for everyone who needs them. The system was overwhelmed. That also leads to healthcare workers being overworked, exhausted, making mistakes and getting sick themselves.

[Lord Fyre]

saramarie otc wrote:

The best defenses IMHO:

~Robust universal healthcare system where people are not financially destabilized because they sought treatment for colds, flus, coronavirus, or other contagious illnesses.
~Employee sick time and adequate staffing to ensure everyone, from grocery store cashiers to waitstaff in restaurants to teachers and cleaning staff are able to take adequate paid time off when sick or when acting as a caregiver to someone who is sick.
~Minimum wage being brought up to a livable wage, and either robust social programs or UBI to support people who do not or cannot work.
~Encouraging people to set the following behaviors as social norms: coughing & sneezing into elbows instead of hands, washing hands frequently and always before meals, self-quarantining when sick, overtime as a rarity rather than a necessity.

While I agree with you, this does inject a measure of Politics into the thread; a "no-no" for the Paizo boards ... even for the staff.

[Rysky]

The question was “how do we deal with a viral outbreak” and those were legitimate answers.

Dealing with viral outbreaks is also political to begin with.

[Lord Fyre]

Rysky wrote:

The question was “how do we deal with a viral outbreak” and those were legitimate answers.

Dealing with viral outbreaks is also political to begin with.

But it does run into the "no politics" rule.

As we are in a U.S. Presidential Election year, it is clear that everything is political. It will become harder to avoid.

[Rysky]

This has nothing to do with the election year and everything to do with a rather serious outbreak that has already claimed many lives.

A bit of common sense goes a long ways.

[Lord Fyre]

Rysky wrote:

This has nothing to do with the election year and everything to do with a rather serious outbreak that has already claimed many lives.

A bit of common sense goes a long ways.

Then why do so many Americans not have it?

[Rysky]

… hello non-sequitur.

[captain yesterday]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Rysky wrote:

This has nothing to do with the election year and everything to do with a rather serious outbreak that has already claimed many lives.

A bit of common sense goes a long ways.

Then why do so many Americans not have it?

Because it didn't originate here.

[Orthos]

LF has a point. This is kind of the inevitable result of the No-Politics rule - eventually you run into a situation where you simply cannot discuss subjects realistically without crossing the rule's lines.

[Rysky]

Or we can use reasoning and common sense and not immediately jump on the slippery slope fallacy anytime a rule might possibly be in the vicinity.

[Orthos]

Except it's not a slippery slope. What is posted above is explicitly a breach of the rule as it currently stands.

More reasonably, it means the rule itself probably needs to be revisited and rewritten, if not completely revoked or replaced.

[Rysky]

1) It is not in the slightest.

2) And I'm okay with the rule being revoked.

[Orthos]

I see we are not going to agree at all on 1 and it's late so I'm going to just leave it be and go to bed. Otherwise I'm going to risk getting frustrated and saying something snarky that'll get me punished or banned.

But yes, the rule is and has been for a while at the point of causing more problems than it solves.

[Lord Fyre]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Rysky wrote:

This has nothing to do with the election year and everything to do with a rather serious outbreak that has already claimed many lives.

A bit of common sense goes a long ways.

Then why do so many Americans not have it?

Ah! Pronoun trouble.

Rysky wrote:

… hello non-sequitur.

I was referring to a lack of "common sense."

I also have to note that what one person considers "common sense" may not (and often does not) match what another person considers "common sense."

[Rysky]

Ah, then that was I misunderstanding on my part, me and Cap'n were on the same thoughts and thought you meant the Coronovirus, not common sense.

[captain yesterday]

Yes, that makes much more sense.

As far as the "politics" comment goes, I didn't find it overly political, nor do I want to have overly political subjects return to Paizo.com.

[captain yesterday]

Lord Fyre wrote:

saramarie otc wrote:

The best defenses IMHO:

~Robust universal healthcare system where people are not financially destabilized because they sought treatment for colds, flus, coronavirus, or other contagious illnesses.
~Employee sick time and adequate staffing to ensure everyone, from grocery store cashiers to waitstaff in restaurants to teachers and cleaning staff are able to take adequate paid time off when sick or when acting as a caregiver to someone who is sick.
~Minimum wage being brought up to a livable wage, and either robust social programs or UBI to support people who do not or cannot work.
~Encouraging people to set the following behaviors as social norms: coughing & sneezing into elbows instead of hands, washing hands frequently and always before meals, self-quarantining when sick, overtime as a rarity rather than a necessity.

While I agree with you, this does inject a measure of Politics into the thread; a "no-no" for the Paizo boards ... even for the staff.

This isn't politics, if it was about politics she would have explicitly called out various legislators, laws, or political parties. None of these things are mentioned.

[Vanykrye]

At worst it's mentioning policies that most of the 1st World countries already have.

[Quark Blast]

It's Coming...

NYT wrote:

C.D.C. Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the U.S.

Clusters of infection are likely in American communities, health officials said. Some lawmakers questioned whether the nation is prepared.

Federal health officials starkly warned on Tuesday that the new coronavirus will almost certainly spread in the United States...

[thejeff]

Yup. It's pretty much a question of how long we can delay it and how much we can slow down the spread.

On the larger scale, things were actually looking up until late stage cases started popping up in Iran in what was obviously an unknown large scale outbreak.

There are very likely other unknown hotspots at this point, in countries that can't or aren't detect and track it properly.

[Goth Guru]

Spray disinfectant into a scarf, wrap it around your face, and hand out hand sanitizer at the polls.

[Dr Hubert Bombay, Warlock, M.D.]

And stay current on your vaccinations including your annual flu shot, so your immune system won't be already compromised if you do contract covid-19.

And maybe have a gin & tonic or two.

[Lord Fyre]

Dr Hubert Bombay, Warlock, M.D. wrote:

And stay current on your vaccinations including your annual flu shot, so your immune system won't be already compromised if you do contract covid-19.

And maybe have a gin & tonic or two.

I prefer Corona.

[thejeff]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Dr Hubert Bombay, Warlock, M.D. wrote:

And stay current on your vaccinations including your annual flu shot, so your immune system won't be already compromised if you do contract covid-19.

And maybe have a gin & tonic or two.

I prefer Corona.

Corona with Lyme is the disease joke around here.