Good question.
I think by RAW no, but RAI and perhaps Errata might change that.
But can't really say on RAI, so only RAW is clear now.
Does firing a Reload 0 weapon have the manipulate trait?
Firing without actually reloading or firing with reloading or reloading and then firing?
Strike has no manipulate trait, so I'd say firing your pre-loaded weapon does not have the trait. However reloading leads to interact leads to manipulate.
So in case an AoO capable enemy is in melee range just firing the loaded weapon would not trigger an AoO however any reload interaction will.
P.S.: Just changed my mind on RAW, as per the current wording for reload 0 you only use strike actions, never the interact action.
I believe it would have the manipulation trait. There would be no point in having a Reload 0 otherwise imo, just Reaload 1-3.
By having a Reload 0 it is saying that "your reload interact doesn't cost you an action and is a part of the firing". So if they do decide that it is unclear I wouldn't be surprised if it is errated to be free action for Reload 0 as to me that seems to be the intent.
Technically drawing a weapon and loading a crossbow are both manipulate actions. So it would be super weird if drawing an arrow and knocking it wasn't. Not sure how often it matters, as firing it will provoke anyway.
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RAW: as written, no manipulation trait: It's the Interact actions that have the trait and 0 reload means 0 Interact actions.
RAI: If they ever rule on this, my guess would be they'd add the trait.
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I will just poke in and say that Attack of Opportunity specifically calls out making a ranged attack as a trigger, so whether or not the action to shoot a bow has Manipulate is moot where AOO is concerned.
For other reactions with manipulate as a trigger however, I'd say it is kinda up to the GM. I can see the argument about the phrase, "retrieve, knock and loose an arrow," in Hands pointing to the action having Manipulate. The wording of "Reload" also has some interesting wording.
This entry indicates how many Interact actions
it takes to reload such weapons. This can be 0 if drawing
ammunition and firing the weapon are part of the same
action.
My interpretation would be that the process of shooting a bow simply rolls the interact action to retrieve the arrow into the process of shooting that same arrow. But you are still "interacting" to retrieve that arrow, whether or not you spent an action specifically to do so. So manipulate.
Honestly doesn't change much for many situations. AOO will already trigger against the ranged attack happening. And nothing is stopping you from readying an action to attack someone shooting a bow.
Disrupt Prey triggers off manipulate and not a ranged attack: that's about all I can think of.
I would be totally fine with Disrupt Prey allowing you to mess with a longbow attack.
I think all we have to do is look at Double Shot: it's it's own action that requires a weapon to be reloaded in the middle of it. It's traits are Fighter and Flourish. You also have Hunted Shot with Flourish and Ranger. Neither adds manipulate to the action.
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I think all we have to do is look at Double Shot: it's it's own action that requires a weapon to be reloaded in the middle of it. It's traits are Fighter and Flourish. You also have Hunted Shot with Flourish and Ranger. Neither adds manipulate to the action.
Those actually aren't the best examples. They are not actions themselves, instead they are activities, which include all of the traits of the actions within them. So if you ruled that "reloading" added Manipulate to a strike with a bow, it would simply add the manipulate trait to any activity that includes a strike with that bow.
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They are not actions themselves, instead they are activities, which include all of the traits of the actions within them. So if you ruled that "reloading" added Manipulate to a strike with a bow, it would simply add the manipulate trait to any activity that includes a strike with that bow.
Subordinate Action wording threw me off: when they said they factored in those the overall action I was thinking traits too, but that's not the case I guess.
This entry indicates how many Interact actions it takes to reload such weapons.
This seems to pretty clearly suggest that reloading a reload 0 weapon requires 0 interact actions and therefore no manipulates.
But...
This can be 0 if drawing ammunition and firing the weapon are part of the same action.
This suggests that rather than being 0 actions, the action to reload becomes part of the action to attack. I feel like there are a lot of people who'd use this to argue that you're still performing the normal actions to reload, but simply doing it as part of the same action as your strike rather than as a separate action.
This entry indicates how many Interact actions it takes to reload such weapons.This seems to pretty clearly suggest that reloading a reload 0 weapon requires 0 interact actions and therefore no manipulates.
But...
This can be 0 if drawing ammunition and firing the weapon are part of the same action.This suggests that rather than being 0 actions, the action to reload becomes part of the action to attack. I feel like there are a lot of people who'd use this to argue that you're still performing the normal actions to reload, but simply doing it as part of the same action as your strike rather than as a separate action.
For me, "drawing ammunition" isn't the same as reload. Drawing ammo is part of reloading but not it's own action and just a bit later under thrown is states draw "usually takes an Interact action" not an absolute requirement. This makes me want an explicit requirement for it like bomb does.
Additionally, I'm curious if those that would add manipulate to a bow strike would also add it to thrown weapon with Returning.
Additionally, I'm curious if those that would add manipulate to a bow strike would also add it to thrown weapon with Returning.
No, returning makes the weapon return to your hand, it doesn't suggest interact actions (or any action) on behalf of the thrower at all.
I wouldn't question reloading either if it didn't seem so redundant to have reloading 0 when simply not having the trait would suffice if reloading 0 means nothing.
This entry indicates how many Interact actions it takes to reload such weapons.This seems to pretty clearly suggest that reloading a reload 0 weapon requires 0 interact actions and therefore no manipulates.
But...
This can be 0 if drawing ammunition and firing the weapon are part of the same action.This suggests that rather than being 0 actions, the action to reload becomes part of the action to attack. I feel like there are a lot of people who'd use this to argue that you're still performing the normal actions to reload, but simply doing it as part of the same action as your strike rather than as a separate action.For me, "drawing ammunition" isn't the same as reload. Drawing ammo is part of reloading but not it's own action and just a bit later under thrown is states draw "usually takes an Interact action" not an absolute requirement. This makes me want an explicit requirement for it like bomb does.
Additionally, I'm curious if those that would add manipulate to a bow strike would also add it to thrown weapon with Returning.
For the bow bit, the "reloading" action would be knocking the arrow really. Though you could make the argument that the interact to "draw" the arrow would also count. But that is largely immaterial.
I would say that a Returning rune would bypass the interact to "draw" the weapon in the same way that beginning combat with a thrown weapon already in hand would. At least that is my off the cuff, without research, ruling on the matter.
No, returning makes the weapon return to your hand, it doesn't suggest interact actions (or any action) on behalf of the thrower at all.
I would think the draw ammo action and the grabbing of the weapon when it returns would be similar in effort: I'm assuming you have to at least grab it when it returns [which would be a manipulate]. It's not an interact but neither is the 0 reload.
I would say that a Returning rune would bypass the interact to "draw" the weapon in the same way that beginning combat with a thrown weapon already in hand would. At least that is my off the cuff, without research, ruling on the matter.
IMO, it's not the interact pre se but the action to regrip the weapon: no matter what action [or not action] it is, you're clearly manipulating the weapon to wield it again. It's not normally something I'd bother with, but it seems the same kind of situation as the 0 reload bow: I'd think if one had to use the manipulate trait the other most likely should.
I would think the draw ammo action and the grabbing of the weapon when it returns would be similar in effort: I'm assuming you have to at least grab it when it returns [which would be a manipulate]. It's not an interact but neither is the 0 reload.
IMO, it's not the interact pre se but the action to regrip the weapon: no matter what action [or not action] it is, you're clearly manipulating the weapon to wield it again. It's not normally something I'd bother with, but it seems the same kind of situation as the 0 reload bow: I'd think if one had to use the manipulate trait the other most likely should.
It flies back to your hand, i imagine it as if it were magnetically drawn rather than the character needing to use hand eye cordination to grab it out of the air.
Reaching for the arrow, drawing it, bringing it back to the bow and notching it is a much larger set of actions than closing four fingers and a thumb when something touches your palm.
I would think the draw ammo action and the grabbing of the weapon when it returns would be similar in effort: I'm assuming you have to at least grab it when it returns [which would be a manipulate]. It's not an interact but neither is the 0 reload.
IMO, it's not the interact pre se but the action to regrip the weapon: no matter what action [or not action] it is, you're clearly manipulating the weapon to wield it again. It's not normally something I'd bother with, but it seems the same kind of situation as the 0 reload bow: I'd think if one had to use the manipulate trait the other most likely should.
It flies back to your hand, i imagine it as if it were magnetically drawn rather than the character needing to use hand eye cordination to grab it out of the air.
Reaching for the arrow, drawing it, bringing it back to the bow and notching it is a much larger set of actions than closing four fingers and a thumb when something touches your palm.
"closing four fingers and a thumb when something touches your palm" is pretty much describing changing grips which is a whole action... That's why i was trying to match non-action 'actions' together: that's what I was trying to say with effort [in actions not in physical movement].
"closing four fingers and a thumb when something touches your palm" is pretty much describing changing grips which is a whole action... That's why i was trying to match non-action 'actions' together: that's what I was trying to say with effort [in actions not in physical movement].I would think the draw ammo action and the grabbing of the weapon when it returns would be similar in effort: I'm assuming you have to at least grab it when it returns [which would be a manipulate]. It's not an interact but neither is the 0 reload.
IMO, it's not the interact pre se but the action to regrip the weapon: no matter what action [or not action] it is, you're clearly manipulating the weapon to wield it again. It's not normally something I'd bother with, but it seems the same kind of situation as the 0 reload bow: I'd think if one had to use the manipulate trait the other most likely should.
It flies back to your hand, i imagine it as if it were magnetically drawn rather than the character needing to use hand eye cordination to grab it out of the air.
Reaching for the arrow, drawing it, bringing it back to the bow and notching it is a much larger set of actions than closing four fingers and a thumb when something touches your palm.
This basically goes back to the "because mechanics" argument. In reality, changing your grip on a weapon would basically take no time. But the game goes out of its way to make that take an action, mostly to restrict spellcasting or using items I'd imagine.
Would you say that you have to "adjust your grip" on an arrow as you draw it from your quiver to attack with a bow?
Also, minor grip changes are actually free. Fighters with weapons constantly adjust and change their grip on items. The grip adjustment action in the book is for removing or adding a hand that wasn't already touching the weapon imho. So adjusting how you are holding a knife would be free.
For example: Would you hold a knife the same way to stab someone as you would to throw it? If so, then you have never thrown a knife. Even if you throw the knife hilt first, not super common, you are going to be adjusting your grip to do so. This is free as far as the game is concerned. You are not adding or removing a hand.