Further clarification on Haste spell


Rules Discussion


I did some light digging around on the forums and couldn't find if this has already been discussed. If it has please point me in the right direction!

The restrictions on the bonus actions for haste is they must be used for Stride or Strike.

This would leave me to believe you may only use the extra action for those two specific actions as detailed in the (I think it's Encounter) section of the CRB.

And you couldn't use the extra action for say... Power Attack (even though Power Attack is in essence a 'strike')?


MongrelHorde wrote:

I did some light digging around on the forums and couldn't find if this has already been discussed. If it has please point me in the right direction!

The restrictions on the bonus actions for haste is they must be used for Stride or Strike.

This would leave me to believe you may only use the extra action for those two specific actions as detailed in the (I think it's Encounter) section of the CRB.

And you couldn't use the extra action for say... Power Attack (even though Power Attack is in essence a 'strike')?

Power attack isn't a strike action, power attack is an action that makes you make a strike action while modifying the effect of said strike action.

Look to the list of basic actions which clearly define what a strike is and what a stride is.


So yes, Haste is quite limiting. Compared to previous versions it can feel mediocre. For many PCs, it is.

But for a Flurry Ranger or Fighter w/ an agile weapon, that 3rd or 4th Strike remains pretty good. Or for that Barbarian or Fighter w/ Whirlwind Attack, that movement to get into position first is priceless. For the guy w/ a shield or PC w/ a companion or Bard wanting to cast while song-buffing, having that extra Stride or Strike can make a large difference tactically.


Castilliano wrote:

So yes, Haste is quite limiting. Compared to previous versions it can feel mediocre. For many PCs, it is.

But for a Flurry Ranger or Fighter w/ an agile weapon, that 3rd or 4th Strike remains pretty good. Or for that Barbarian or Fighter w/ Whirlwind Attack, that movement to get into position first is priceless. For the guy w/ a shield or PC w/ a companion or Bard wanting to cast while song-buffing, having that extra Stride or Strike can make a large difference tactically.

Can you give me an example of any character that isn't massively benefiting from an extra stride?


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The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

So yes, Haste is quite limiting. Compared to previous versions it can feel mediocre. For many PCs, it is.

But for a Flurry Ranger or Fighter w/ an agile weapon, that 3rd or 4th Strike remains pretty good. Or for that Barbarian or Fighter w/ Whirlwind Attack, that movement to get into position first is priceless. For the guy w/ a shield or PC w/ a companion or Bard wanting to cast while song-buffing, having that extra Stride or Strike can make a large difference tactically.

Can you give me an example of any character that isn't massively benefiting from an extra stride?

If it were free, then everybody would appreciate the bonus, right?

It's about whether casting Haste is worthwhile, both in terms of the slot and the action cost. (At least until casting the 7th level version as SOP.)

I don't think a full caster positioned safely "massively" benefits from Haste. Pretty much anybody who's where the want to be does, and they may also lack a decent offense for that Strike (perhaps due to -10 MAP) to be useful. Nor if in the Land of the Ice Trolls do I think Haste would be preferable to Fireball. In shorter combats, it's also likely less than "massively" beneficial to anybody.
And I prefer this to the "must-have" status Haste had in PF1. It's competitive more than dominant.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

So yes, Haste is quite limiting. Compared to previous versions it can feel mediocre. For many PCs, it is.

But for a Flurry Ranger or Fighter w/ an agile weapon, that 3rd or 4th Strike remains pretty good. Or for that Barbarian or Fighter w/ Whirlwind Attack, that movement to get into position first is priceless. For the guy w/ a shield or PC w/ a companion or Bard wanting to cast while song-buffing, having that extra Stride or Strike can make a large difference tactically.

Can you give me an example of any character that isn't massively benefiting from an extra stride?

Anyone who has already arrived at their desired destination.


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Haste is still a solid pick, but it isn't a must-have buff you have to drop on your martials for every fight anymore. Which is probably a good thing.


Castilliano wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

So yes, Haste is quite limiting. Compared to previous versions it can feel mediocre. For many PCs, it is.

But for a Flurry Ranger or Fighter w/ an agile weapon, that 3rd or 4th Strike remains pretty good. Or for that Barbarian or Fighter w/ Whirlwind Attack, that movement to get into position first is priceless. For the guy w/ a shield or PC w/ a companion or Bard wanting to cast while song-buffing, having that extra Stride or Strike can make a large difference tactically.

Can you give me an example of any character that isn't massively benefiting from an extra stride?

If it were free, then everybody would appreciate the bonus, right?

It's about whether casting Haste is worthwhile, both in terms of the slot and the action cost. (At least until casting the 7th level version as SOP.)

I don't think a full caster positioned safely "massively" benefits from Haste. Pretty much anybody who's where the want to be does, and they may also lack a decent offense for that Strike (perhaps due to -10 MAP) to be useful. Nor if in the Land of the Ice Trolls do I think Haste would be preferable to Fireball. In shorter combats, it's also likely less than "massively" beneficial to anybody.
And I prefer this to the "must-have" status Haste had in PF1. It's competitive more than dominant.

Oh sure less must have but it lets a caster cast twice and still move, it lets a caster break line of sight and still cast. It opens up a decent number of tactics for full casters.

Maybe it matters less for players who have gentler GMs.


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Echoing "great on certain characters, not a must for all martials anymore, and that is a good thing."


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Castilliano wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

So yes, Haste is quite limiting. Compared to previous versions it can feel mediocre. For many PCs, it is.

But for a Flurry Ranger or Fighter w/ an agile weapon, that 3rd or 4th Strike remains pretty good. Or for that Barbarian or Fighter w/ Whirlwind Attack, that movement to get into position first is priceless. For the guy w/ a shield or PC w/ a companion or Bard wanting to cast while song-buffing, having that extra Stride or Strike can make a large difference tactically.

Can you give me an example of any character that isn't massively benefiting from an extra stride?

If it were free, then everybody would appreciate the bonus, right?

It's about whether casting Haste is worthwhile, both in terms of the slot and the action cost. (At least until casting the 7th level version as SOP.)

I don't think a full caster positioned safely "massively" benefits from Haste. Pretty much anybody who's where the want to be does, and they may also lack a decent offense for that Strike (perhaps due to -10 MAP) to be useful. Nor if in the Land of the Ice Trolls do I think Haste would be preferable to Fireball. In shorter combats, it's also likely less than "massively" beneficial to anybody.
And I prefer this to the "must-have" status Haste had in PF1. It's competitive more than dominant.

Oh sure less must have but it lets a caster cast twice and still move, it lets a caster break line of sight and still cast. It opens up a decent number of tactics for full casters.

Maybe it matters less for players who have gentler GMs.

Remember, it took a round and a slot to cast that spell.

Whether you can hold a position does link to a GM's toughness, but so does whether you can spare a round and the resources to buff what should be a secondary target.
Plus, the descriptor "massively" was used. I already acknowledged everybody could find it useful. But "massively"? Meh.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Part of the utility of an extra stride for the hypothetical caster depends on whether a safe position exists in the encounter. Sometimes, a big beefy wall of fighter can hold enemies at bay behind a choke point and make standing behind them very safe, as long as they stay standing. Other times the caster being able to stride can be very important to their survival. Other times, they just want to walk out for an optimal angle on a cone shaped spell, then retreat back to where they came from, because the optimal angle required them to be way up in front.

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