Goliath Druid help


Advice


Hey guys new to the forum.
My barbarian has just died in our recent campaign and I wanted to run a Goliath Druid as our tank. The idea is to summon creature in front of my all my allies then charge the enemies with my companion to keep them away from my allies.
So he would be a 5th level Druid I was thinking human and feats
1 Spell Focus Cunjuration
BF Augmented Summoning
3 Heavy Armor Proficiency
5 Power Attack

Any recommendations to make this work well?
Is this idea any good or should I try something else?
What would be the best animal companion to take?

Silver Crusade

There is nothing wrong with your build, however there is room for improvement.

Goliath Druid is made to go toe to toe with enemies, not really to summon critters or delegate the work to others. Summoning takes 1 round to cast, which means that if you start casting now, you will be finished at the beginning of your next turn. Since you will be doing that in the middle of the battlefield, your spellcasting will be easily interrupted, wasting both your spell slot and your action.

On the other hand, other Druid archetypes are better suited for summoning, as they can do so as a standard action, not incurring in between-turns concentration checks. An example is the Saurian Shaman Druid which, apart from being a very strong archetype per se, also reflects the dinosaur-oriented flavour of the Goliath Druid.

So, I suggest you actually choose your focus.

If you see your character wildshaped as a giant (that is, a Large -or Huge later on- sized humanoid), swinging around their weapon on the battlefield, while occasionally summoning a critter out of or before combat, then Goliath Druid is the best option for you. In this case, I would ditch Spell Focus and Augmented Summoning as it is not going to be your main strategy. The main pro of this build is the fact that your standard equipment will stay on even while wildshaped, and you will not need Natural Spell to cast while in giant form (since giants are humanoids).

If instead you see your character as a dinosaur, who actively summons beasts in combat as their standard strategy, then I suggest going Saurian Shaman Druid. The accelerated dinosaur Wildshape gives you early-access to stronger options but, unlike for Goliath Druid, your equipment will meld into your new form while wildshaped, unless you have a Wild armor, and you will need to pick Natural Spell to cast. If this is your pick, I suggest you ditch the Heavy Armor Proficiency, as you won't be using it as efficiently as a Goliath Druid.

From what I read, I think that the second option will fit your concept better. Saurian Shaman Druid is the best at summoning dinosaurs and reptiles, while also having very powerful melee Wildshape options.

For the animal companion, spinosaurus is the one with the highest Strength (18 base, 26 at level 7), which it makes it a strong offensive option. For a more defensive one, ankylosaurus is pretty much the best tank available, with its 14 Dex and +9 natural armor (+11 at level 7)


Get Natural Spell at level 5. Otherwise you'll have to shift out of Wild Shape to cast a spell and you won't be able to Wild Shape again, you'll be stuck in caster form. And trust me, you'll be wanting to cast Summons, Cure spells, Frostbite, Sickening Entanglement, etc. Natural Spell is a very important feat to how a Goliath Druid operates.

Silver Crusade

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Get Natural Spell at level 5. Otherwise you'll have to shift out of Wild Shape to cast a spell and you won't be able to Wild Shape again, you'll be stuck in caster form. And trust me, you'll be wanting to cast Summons, Cure spells, Sickening Entanglement, etc. Natural Spell is a very important feat to how a Goliath Druid operates.

Wrong. Goliath Druids, while in humanoid form, which is the form they will be wildshaping into from level 6 onward, do not need Natural Spell.

Transmutation wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon.


Gray Warden wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Get Natural Spell at level 5. Otherwise you'll have to shift out of Wild Shape to cast a spell and you won't be able to Wild Shape again, you'll be stuck in caster form. And trust me, you'll be wanting to cast Summons, Cure spells, Sickening Entanglement, etc. Natural Spell is a very important feat to how a Goliath Druid operates.
Wrong. Goliath Druids, while in humanoid form, which is the form they will be wildshaping into from level 6 onward, do not need Natural Spell.

Wrong. Goliath Druids can wild shape into Dinosaur and Megafauna, and would require Natural Spell to cast spells while in that form.

Silver Crusade

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Get Natural Spell at level 5. Otherwise you'll have to shift out of Wild Shape to cast a spell and you won't be able to Wild Shape again, you'll be stuck in caster form. And trust me, you'll be wanting to cast Summons, Cure spells, Sickening Entanglement, etc. Natural Spell is a very important feat to how a Goliath Druid operates.
Wrong. Goliath Druids, while in humanoid form, which is the form they will be wildshaping into from level 6 onward, do not need Natural Spell.
Wrong. Goliath Druids can wild shape into Dinosaur and Megafauna, and would require Natural Spell to cast spells while in that form.

Which is why I specified humanoid as the form they will be wildshaping into from level 6 onwards. Becoming a giant, using your own (enlarged) weapon, keeping armor bonuses and not needing Natural Spell, is the main point of the archetype. Goliath Druids tend therefore almost always to wildshape into humanoids rather than megafauna or dinosaurs. Taking a feat only for those corner cases is a waste.

If the OP intends to use the archetype to more often Wildshape into dinosaurs, then it is probably better for him to get a different archetype (Saurian Shaman Druid).


Gray Warden wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Get Natural Spell at level 5. Otherwise you'll have to shift out of Wild Shape to cast a spell and you won't be able to Wild Shape again, you'll be stuck in caster form. And trust me, you'll be wanting to cast Summons, Cure spells, Sickening Entanglement, etc. Natural Spell is a very important feat to how a Goliath Druid operates.
Wrong. Goliath Druids, while in humanoid form, which is the form they will be wildshaping into from level 6 onward, do not need Natural Spell.
Wrong. Goliath Druids can wild shape into Dinosaur and Megafauna, and would require Natural Spell to cast spells while in that form.

Which is why I specified humanoid. Becoming a giant, using your own (enlarged) equip and not needing Natural Spell, is the main point of the archetype. Goliath Druids tend therefore almost always to wildshape into humanoids than megafauna or dinosaurs.

If the OP intends to use the archetype to more often Wildshape into dinosaurs, then it is probably better for him to get a different archetype (Saurian Shaman Druid).

You can do either, depends on what flavor the player is going for. So don't tell me I'm wrong, sound good?

Silver Crusade

"Wrong" was referred to the compulsory tone conveyed by this part:

Quote:
Get Natural Spell at level 5. Otherwise you'll have to shift out of Wild Shape to cast a spell

Natural Spell is hardly a necessity for a Goliath Druid. Vanilla druids yes, they have to pick Natural Spell, otherwise they have to go back in caster form.

But Goliath Druids? They will rarely, if ever, need it, except for maybe literally just level 5, when they have access only to animal shapes. They can pick Natural Spell, although most probably they shouldn't. Anyhow, I apologise for the harsh tone.


I dunno, running in to combat as a massive dinosaur with an enlarged dinosaur pet sounds kinda fun :P


Thanks for the advice. I decided the the saurian druid was more what I was going for don't know how I missed seeing that. And I'll definitely get the ankylosaurus and probably give them light armour proficiency to make its ac better. I'll swap power attack for natural spell Any idea what feat I should replace heavy armour proficiency to?

Silver Crusade

KoboldSwarm wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I decided the the saurian druid was more what I was going for don't know how I missed seeing that. And I'll definitely get the ankylosaurus and probably give them light armour proficiency to make its ac better. I'll swap power attack for natural spell Any idea what feat I should replace heavy armour proficiency to?

Power Attack lol. There's no point in not having Power Attack when you are a Huge Allosaurus, even if your focus is summoning.

Btw, the Ankylosaurus does not need Light Armor Proficiency. Simply give him a masterwork studded leather barding (250gp) for +3 to AC. If you are not proficient in armors, you'll get the armor class penalty as a malus to attacks. However mwk studded leather has ZERO ACP, so effectively nullifying the only issue with not having proficiency.


Gray Warden wrote:
KoboldSwarm wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I decided the the saurian druid was more what I was going for don't know how I missed seeing that. And I'll definitely get the ankylosaurus and probably give them light armour proficiency to make its ac better. I'll swap power attack for natural spell Any idea what feat I should replace heavy armour proficiency to?

Power Attack lol. There's no point in not having Power Attack when you are a Huge Allosaurus, even if your focus is summoning.

Btw, the Ankylosaurus does not need Light Armor Proficiency. Simply give him a masterwork studded leather barding (250gp) for +3 to AC. If you are not proficient in armors, you'll get the armor class penalty as a malus to attacks. However mwk studded leather has ZERO ACP, so effectively nullifying the only issue with not having proficiency.

Are you going to have Barding made for yourself for while you are in your Dinosaur form? And how are you going to dress in it?

Hopefully, a friendly party wizard or Paladin will oblige you with a Swift Girding Spell, or you would have to dip a level in Arcanist of Magus or something and then you can Swift-Gird yourself.

Fooling around with Druidzilla builds myself, I was finding just plain Druid works as well as Saurian Shaman. If you are going to Wildshape into an animal with a single Natural Attack like an Anklysaurus, then I'd recommend single-attack feats such as Vital Strike and Great Cleave. Also, instead of the Anklysaurus, take a look at the Arsinotherium (a kind of Megafauna). They have a single Natural Attack like the Anklysaurus, but it does more damage.

If you are going to favor Allosaurus as an shape to turn into, remember you have Grab, Pounce, and Rake. Get yourself some Rhino Hide Armor!


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
KoboldSwarm wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I decided the the saurian druid was more what I was going for don't know how I missed seeing that. And I'll definitely get the ankylosaurus and probably give them light armour proficiency to make its ac better. I'll swap power attack for natural spell Any idea what feat I should replace heavy armour proficiency to?

Power Attack lol. There's no point in not having Power Attack when you are a Huge Allosaurus, even if your focus is summoning.

Btw, the Ankylosaurus does not need Light Armor Proficiency. Simply give him a masterwork studded leather barding (250gp) for +3 to AC. If you are not proficient in armors, you'll get the armor class penalty as a malus to attacks. However mwk studded leather has ZERO ACP, so effectively nullifying the only issue with not having proficiency.

Are you going to have Barding made for yourself for while you are in your Dinosaur form? And how are you going to dress in it?

Hopefully, a friendly party wizard or Paladin will oblige you with a Swift Girding Spell, or you would have to dip a level in Arcanist of Magus or something and then you can Swift-Gird yourself.

Fooling around with Druidzilla builds myself, I was finding just plain Druid works as well as Saurian Shaman. If you are going to Wildshape into an animal with a single Natural Attack like an Anklysaurus, then I'd recommend single-attack feats such as Vital Strike and Great Cleave. Also, instead of the Anklysaurus, take a look at the Arsinotherium (a kind of Megafauna). They have a single Natural Attack like the Anklysaurus, but it does more damage.

If you are going to favor Allosaurus as an shape to turn into, remember you have Grab, Pounce, and Rake. Get yourself some Rhino Hide Armor!

I'll have to look into the Arsinotherium and see what I can do

Okay cool I'll get the MW studded leather for him and get power attack.


If you're going Goliath Druid, I recommend building into the (somewhat ridiculous) Vital Strike build. Since at 12th you'll be Huge in size, why not go ahead and make your one giant smash each round even more giant. With an Impact weapon and a 1-level dip into Titan Fighter or 3-level dip into Titan Mauler Barbarian, you can cap out weapon size. Shaping Focus lets you not lose progression in Wild Shape while dipping levels. Just build out all the things that make your giant smash go.

The build is alright through 11th level. Play it like a damage dealer, not so much like a tank. You'll have some Con, but kinda bad AC. Not that anything wants to stand in to test you on it. BUT... at 12th level, you'll become a nigh immortal character essentially immune to hit point damage, thanks to the combination of Regeneration from your form and Ferocity from something like Juggernaut's Pauldrons. Can't be knocked out for being below 1 HP, can't die either. Woof.


Greg.Everham wrote:

If you're going Goliath Druid, I recommend building into the (somewhat ridiculous) Vital Strike build. Since at 12th you'll be Huge in size, why not go ahead and make your one giant smash each round even more giant. With an Impact weapon and a 1-level dip into Titan Fighter or 3-level dip into Titan Mauler Barbarian, you can cap out weapon size. Shaping Focus lets you not lose progression in Wild Shape while dipping levels. Just build out all the things that make your giant smash go.

The build is alright through 11th level. Play it like a damage dealer, not so much like a tank. You'll have some Con, but kinda bad AC. Not that anything wants to stand in to test you on it. BUT... at 12th level, you'll become a nigh immortal character essentially immune to hit point damage, thanks to the combination of Regeneration from your form and Ferocity from something like Juggernaut's Pauldrons. Can't be knocked out for being below 1 HP, can't die either. Woof.

That sounds awesome :) But where are you getting Regeneration from?

Grand Lodge

Trolls in giant shape 2 get regen.

Silver Crusade

Grandlounge wrote:
Trolls in giant shape 2 get regen.

Which is unlocked at Druid level 14, not 12. And at that level there are much more dangerous things that can kill/disable you without doing HP damage. Besides, as a GM I would still rule the regeneration to stop upon receiving fire or acid damage, even if it is not explicitly stated in Giant Form II.

Grand Lodge

My bad. I misremembered giant form 1 has regen. So level 12 is when it is available. Rock trolls are sonic and acid so your GMs going to have to not play RAW and get pretty metagamey to turn it off. You also gain some energy resistance and con (buffs an important save).


If you're playing a Goliath Druid, check with your GM what "megafauna" means. PF has used it for both its really world meaning (big animal) and non-dinosaur prehistoric beasts.

Greg.Everham wrote:
If you're going Goliath Druid, I recommend building into the (somewhat ridiculous) Vital Strike build. Since at 12th you'll be Huge in size, why not go ahead and make your one giant smash each round even more giant. With an Impact weapon and a 1-level dip into Titan Fighter or 3-level dip into Titan Mauler Barbarian, you can cap out weapon size. Shaping Focus lets you not lose progression in Wild Shape while dipping levels. Just build out all the things that make your giant smash go.

Huge actually comes at level 14. You can go Half-Orc to get a 1d12 weapon without dips.


Here's a list of Megafauna

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