Counteracting with class features / feats


Rules Discussion


Hi everyone,

Just found this very weird case. If my Barbarian is balefuly polymorphed, I can use Animal Rage to counteract the spell but... What do I roll in that case?

I'm lost on this one :)

Grand Lodge

SuperBidi wrote:

Hi everyone,

Just found this very weird case. If my Barbarian is balefuly polymorphed, I can use Animal Rage to counteract the spell but... What do I roll in that case?

I'm lost on this one :)

I would have you roll your barbarian class proficiency rank. Ie, your class DC without the 10.

The effect level would be half your character level.


I would certainly do the same. But, first, class DC is a thing, but class check isn't. So it's a completely new concept. And there's nothing in the rules about that... It should be errataed.

Grand Lodge

SuperBidi wrote:
I would certainly do the same. But, first, class DC is a thing, but class check isn't. So it's a completely new concept. And there's nothing in the rules about that... It should be errataed.

Agreed on both points.

It's interesting that they call out a proficiency bonus and key ability under class DC (pg 29) but never actually tie this to a check. It was surprising not to find it in the rules.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The counteracting rules say "When attempting a counteract check, add the relevant skill modifier or other appropriate modifier to your check against the target’s DC. If you’re counteracting an affliction, the DC is in the affliction’s stat block. If it’s a spell, use the caster’s DC. The GM can also calculate a DC based on the target effect’s level. For spells, the counteract check modifier is your spellcasting ability modifier plus your spellcasting proficiency bonus, plus any bonuses and penalties that specifically apply to counteract checks. What you can counteract depends on the check result and the target’s level. If an effect is a spell, its level is the counteract level. Otherwise, halve its level and round up to determine its counteract level. If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level."

Though it's not technically a spell, the barbarian's proficiency level and key ability score would seem to be the relevant counteract check, but since the ability does specify that it is a 3rd-level animal form effect, that would be the counteract level.


Shisumo wrote:

The counteracting rules say "When attempting a counteract check, add the relevant skill modifier or other appropriate modifier to your check against the target’s DC. If you’re counteracting an affliction, the DC is in the affliction’s stat block. If it’s a spell, use the caster’s DC. The GM can also calculate a DC based on the target effect’s level. For spells, the counteract check modifier is your spellcasting ability modifier plus your spellcasting proficiency bonus, plus any bonuses and penalties that specifically apply to counteract checks. What you can counteract depends on the check result and the target’s level. If an effect is a spell, its level is the counteract level. Otherwise, halve its level and round up to determine its counteract level. If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level."

Though it's not technically a spell, the barbarian's proficiency level and key ability score would seem to be the relevant counteract check, but since the ability does specify that it is a 3rd-level animal form effect, that would be the counteract level.

I tend to disagree on the last part. Animal Rage being a level 8 feat, we can also consider the counteract level to be 4. I think it would be more in line with the level where you get it.

Anyway, it's not very important as the only Polymorph spell you would want to counteract is Baleful Polymorph, which is level 6, so you would need a critical success anyway.

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