Bleed damage question

Rules Questions

So I just looked up how bleed works and I had a question. With the Vengeful Hunter Fighter ability called Vengeance, if I were to use different damaging types of bolts in a crossbow would that count as a different "type" of Bleed damage thus allowing the bleed to stack?



A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.

Vengeance (EX)

At 5th level, a vengeful hunter deals 1d4 points of bleed damage when he damages a creature that has damaged him since the beginning of his last turn. Whenever a creature takes bleed damage from this effect, it also takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks for 1 round. This penalty is a pain effect and does not stack with the effects of the sickened condition. This bleed damage increases to 1d6 at 9th level, 1d8 at 13th level, and 2d6 at 17th level.

This ability replaces weapon training 1.

It looks like the intended effect was to avoid stacking bleed that damaged the same pool--hit points, an ability score, etc--but it certainly doesn't look very clear.
There's "damage types": bludgeoning, piercing, slashing...I guess fire, cold and so on. Then there's "types of damage": hit point, ability score.
One defines the nature of the damage, the other defines what it is that's being damaged.

In terms of bleed damage, there are 8 types of damage, Hitpoint, non lethal, strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. The damage type of the weapon that causes the bleed does not change the damage type of the bleed. The bleed effect itself will tell you what type of damage it is, along with if it is capable of stacking with the same type bleed or not.

So then by what you guys are saying due to it affecting the Health Point Pool it wouldn't stack because it singularly affects that single pool?

Bleed stacking cares about the "kind of damage". The only kind of damage Vengeance ever does is HP bleed. Thus, Vengeance never stacks with itself.

As a general rule bleed doesn't stack. If you did CON-damage bleed and HP-damage bleed they'd take both, but if you did 1d4-HP-damage bleed and 1d6-HP-damage they'd only take the higher damage (You'd roll 1d4 and 1d6 each round and use the higher number).

There are some effects that change this, but they say so:

Your critical hits cause opponents to bleed profusely.

Prerequisites: Critical Focus, base attack bonus +11.

Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a slashing or piercing weapon, your opponent takes 2d6 points of bleed damage (see Conditions) each round on his turn, in addition to the damage dealt by the critical hit. Bleed damage can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal skill check or through any magical healing. The effects of this feat stack.

They stack... with themselves, or all bleed sources?

That's a good question, would the Bleeding Critical feat stack with the Vengeance ability I mentioned before?

No, just with itself.

However Vengeance also gives the -1 penalty on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks for 1 round.

You'd roll the damage for Bleeding Critical and the damage for Vengeance and take the higher of the two. However even though Bleeding Critical will do more damage they'd still take the penalty from Vengeance until they heal the Bleed (the damage is still there, it's just overlapping with Bleeding critical).

(Also the "1 round" from Vengeance is 1 round every time you take Bleed damage from Vengeance, and you take that damage every round until the bleed is healed. Just FYI.)

The compounded effect of bleeding critical and vengeance does bring up a good question though... how many heal checks would be required in that situation and if 2 are required which effect would be removed first? Order the bleeds are applied might not even be a good answer for this as both could be applied in the same strike.

Does one heal check stop all bleeds or just the most recent?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

One heal check (or any magical healing) would definitely stop multiple overlapping (or stacked in the case of Bleeding Critical) effects of the same 'damage type'. I'd probably rule the same for multiple different types of bleed... but I could see an argument for requiring one heal check per type of bleed damage.

Per the general rules, Bleed Damage does not stack. Per the Vengnence ability rules, Bleed Damage sort-of stacks as per the description of the ability.

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