This is the discussion thread for my new game. We already have enough players, so we'll skip the recruitment page unless too many duck out.
We won't be starting play on this until Starfinder is done or at least close to done, so no rush posting here; I just want this around so we don't pollute the SF discussion thread more than we already have.
Campaign World Basics
The year is 5502 according to the Lexandrian Calendar. The World is named Faldriene (in your language, anyway). On the subcontinent of Pretronia, in a country named Mercuria, a lot of changes are taking place. Just 168 years ago, Mercuria was a few small Britanglian colonies.
Over the course of time, Mercuria became independent (via a brutal war with its motherland), grew across a large portion of Pretronia, and has now entered a phase called The Industrial Age. Mass production, steam powered locomotion, and improvements in the technologies of war have vastly changed the cities of Mercuria (as they have done to other parts of Pretronia). Swords have largely (but not entirely) given way to rifles and revolvers, obviating most of the benefits of armor to the point where most modern nations now shun it entirely. No armor has been developed that will protect against bullets.
But rumblings of war abound both within Mercuria and across Pretronia in general. Southern states (many of which still keep Dwarves as Indentured servants) are speaking of rebellion against the north, and skirmishes have broken out when such servants are "freed" by northern abolitionists. Meanwhile, across greater Pretronia, The Ugrinian baron Andre Fader was just assassinated by an extremist from the nearby vassal-state of Brask. Tensions run high as Ugrin debates whether to send troops to suppress the activists. Ancient allies of both nations prepare to throw their power behind long-time friends.
Science and (lack of) Magic
Science and (lack of) Magic
The last three hundred years have lead to explosions in the various disciplines of Science. Today, it is the yardstick by which all knowledge of the physical world is measured. Religion and Philosophy are now viewed as guides to a well-lived life, rather than sources of Divine power, by most "civilized" people. Magic is even less respected, thought of as mere parlor tricks. Most people alive today have never seen a 1st level spell; many never encountered so much as a cantrip. No one known alive has seen more powerful magics. Magical creatures such as Dragons and Griffons, and even most humanoids and similar creatures, are completely unknown outside of legend.
And yet, there was a time, not so incredibly distant, when such magics and creatures existed. When Elves were not merely semi-mythical forest recluses but keepers of ancient arcane knowledge. When sorcerous humans in far towers wielded energies supplied by mystical blood. When powerful Clerics and Druids could return the dead to life. Such beings are long lost.
Or are they? Recently, isolated rumors of such creatures have come to light, in urban legends or very occasionally in the daily papers of some small settlement. Some even say some humans (and maybe other races?) have begun to exhibit the old powers again. It's true. And the PCs are examples.
The Common Thread
The PCs all (or mostly) know each other from a recent war between Mercuria and its southern neighbor Chicoa. It was more of a border dispute than an actual war, but a secret division of the Mercurian Government, called "Department 7" saw it as an opportunity. For years previous, they had been investigating rumors of the Anomalies, as they are called. They'd gathered several, and sent in two platoons to for combat testing.
The Anomalies performed admirable, quite impressively. Yet, in the end, there was a problem. A new-fangled device called a Camera. Chicoans took "photographs" of some of the Anomalies and their actions, and the results. The platoons were recalled, and an attempt to destroy the evidence was made. In the end, only members of one platoon were identified.
With no choice but to publicly affirm the existence of these beings, Department 7 went into damage control mode. What if, instead of government soldiers, these were rogue beings? Outlaws? What if the Mercurian government denied all knowledge of them; indeed, what if they were arrested, and stood trial for their crimes? That would put Mercuria's neighbors at ease at a time when the entire world seemed on the brink of war. And so it was done.
But Anomalies can be hard to hold in a cell. These disgraced, betrayed soldiers managed an escape. These are the PCs.
An interesting seed to a campaign, for sure. I I shine in this world the most common class would generally be "gunslinger" then, rather then fighter?
An interesting seed to a campaign, for sure. I I shine in this world the most common class would generally be "gunslinger" then, rather then fighter?
In general, fighting with a firearm will be more common. However, the PCs will end up facing several non-shooty threats, so having a melee fighter won't be a detriment. There are a couple optional rule factors that mitigate the need to decide one way or the other. First, using "guns everywhere" means that firearms are simple weapons, meaning a good number of classes can just pick one up and use it. Second, though I haven't posted rules yet, I am planning on some form or another of Defense Bonus by Level, meaning that armor will be less necessary, and in some ways detrimental.
So you could play a gunslinger focused on using guns specifically, or you could play a fighter generalist who is pretty good with guns but really shines going toe to toe with the opponents. Yes, specializing is more optimal, but as you know from my previous games, you won't need to be super-optimal.
Now that you say that, I'm already thinking about running with an Urban Barbarian, specializing in the use of a warhammer musket. Ability to gain a bonus to either strength for melee or dexterity for ranged combat when needed. Bet an alchemist could have some fun too, but barbarian is calling too me.
Musket will be a primitive compared to the tech du jour; you can go with it, but if you want you could work up a rifle version, similar to the Lee-Enfield .303 or the M1903 Springfield (for stats, see the "Rifle, Mosin-Nagant M1891." on d20pfsrd.)
I was also considering upping the damage dice on firearms to 2 dice, but lowering the multiplier to x2. What do you think of that idea. I don't want to make Melee weapons less desirable than they already are, but since touch armor classes of opponents will be higher than normal PF (creatures will get a Defense bonus, too, though less than classed characters), guns are not the easy hit they would normally be.
I suppose I could give it a go, sure.
Tokarev WAHA-5495 "Russkin Blunderbasher"
Cost 5,750 gp / Weight 10 lbs.
Damage 1d6 (small), 1d8 (medium); Critical x4; Range 60 ft.; Type B and P; Special —
Misfire 1; Capacity 1
Category Two-Handed; Proficiency Exotic
Patented by the Russkin gun-manufacturer Rodef Tokarev in 1481 LEX, the WAHA rifle was an experiment to include the use of a traditional Russkin warhammer into it's design for close combat encounters. Though weaker and shorter range then most rifles, this modern improvement over those initial designs is favored among Russkin shock-troopers defending their harsh and freezing homeland.
It is considered a double weapon for the purposes of creating masterwork or magical versions of this weapon. If this firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the warhammer are considered broken. A blunderbasher uses metal cartridges as ammunition. This is an advanced firearm.
Edit: Ah, you updated your post after I started writing it up. Well, you can apply changes to it after if you'd like. It's just a reskined rifle with some properties of the Warhammer Musket.
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Now this is something I can really get behind!
Not quite sure what I’ll make. If I come up with something now, my mind will certainly have changed by the time we get started.
OK, so other than humans the only race in common view is Dwarfs, and most of them are 'Indentured' servants, right? And guns are everywhere.
I was thinking of going for a Havocker Witch as a combined arcane cannon/healer. Guns would make such a person less necessary, but that might be part of the point.
I was going to hold off, but tomorrow I'll post some character gen/house-rule stuff; it might affect people's thinking about their on characters. Might also spark some discussion if anyone is vehemently against some house rule.
Cost 5,750 gp / Weight 10 lbs.
Damage 1d6 (small), 1d8 (medium); Critical x4; Range 60 ft.; Type B and P; Special —
Misfire 1; Capacity 1
Category Two-Handed; Proficiency ExoticEdit: Ah, you updated your post after I started writing it up. Well, you can apply changes to it after if you'd like. It's just a reskined rifle with some properties of the Warhammer Musket.
Let's make some adjustments on that. Go ahead and go with 2d10 for the damage, but drop the crit to x2. These guns are a little more modern. They hit more accurately most of the time. Give it a Capacity of 5, and a range of 80'. Keep in mind soldiers will have basically the same weapon, except without the Warhammer, so the added damage cuts both ways.
Okay, House Rules first.
First, I'm going to borrow some Starfinder goodness, in modified form. Add a Stamina Score. This score equals 1/2 your Max HP. You can regain these the same way you can in Starfinder: if you rest 10 minutes and spend a Resolve Point, they come back. Resolve equals 1/2 your character level rounded down (4 at 9th level) so you can renew Stamina 4 times per day.
Second, firearms. Below are the available firearms, though there might be minor tweaks to these in terms of capacity or damage/concealability. All firearms count as Simple weapons unless modified (such as the Tokarev WAHA-5495) in which case they're Martial.
Revolver: 400 GP/2d8 (M)/x2/80'/Misfire 1/Capacity 6
Rifle: 500 GP/2d10 (M)/x2/80'/Misfire 1/Capacity 5
Shotgun: 500 GP/2d8 (M)/x2/20'/Misfire 1/Capacity 1/Scatter
Shotgun: 700 GP/2d8 (M)/x2/20'/Misfire 1/Capacity 2/Scatter
Firearms still do Touch damage in the first 5 ranks, BUT...due to the AC/Defense modifications I'm going to post later, Touch AC will generally be higher for both PCs and enemies (though overall AC will stay about the same).
Defense Bonus by level
9-11th level: +5/+6/+7*
12-14th level: +6/+7/+8
15+ level: +7/+8/+9
The lowest number represents: arcanists, monks, sorcerers, summoners, witches, and wizards.
The second number represents: alchemists, bards, bloodragers, brawlers, gunslingers, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, magus, ninja, oracles, rangers, rogues, shamans, skalds, slayers, swashbucklers, vigilantes, and all Occult classes (occultist, psychic, etc).
The third number represents: antipaladins, barbarians, cavaliers, clerics, druids, fighters, paladins, samurai, shifters, warpriests.
(if you come across a class that's not listed they you want to play, let me know and we'll figure it out).
These bonuses apply to AC, Touch AC, and Flat Footed. In addition, you can apply a +1 bonus for normal clothing.
These bonuses do not stack with armor bonus, but do stack with other bonuses to AC including Natural Armor. Thus, it is often more advantageous to be unarmored, especially if one is likely to encounter firearms.
Character Generation
Determine Ability Scores - 20 Point Buy
Choose Race - Human is the default; Elves are basically legendary; Half-Elves and Half-Orcs would be possible (with a really interesting backstory). Dwarves exist, but are either incredibly isolationist or are basically slaves (or recently freed). Gnomes, being magical beings, would have gone extinct long ago. Other PF races are possible as an Anomaly, but realize looking visibly non-human is really going to make you stand out. It’s best if you have some way to at least appear reasonably human-like.
Choose Class - Any class is available. Make sure to gear your concept toward the “guns everywhere” genre. Armors will be largely useless (at least, against human enemies) and as such I’ll be using a variant Defense Bonus related to level.
Skills - As normal.
Feats - As normal.
Traits - Two traits. I’ll allow re-skinning of restricted traits with a good explanation.
Equipment - You may purchase 10,000 GP worth of equipment, including magical equipment. There will be no “magic-shop” in this campaign, so choose your equipment wisely.
Templates and ARG - You can use a Template with GM approval. I might require modifications if something is problematic (for example, a Vampire not being able to function in daylight). I’ll determine the level adjustment based on the Template; most will be the Template’s CR, but it might be higher for particularly powerful Templates.
I’ll also allow modification of humans using the ARG to add various abilities (Anomalies), up to 20 point buy. This will cost 1 level.
Think I might take up half-orc, but ofc, there's still plenty of time. I do have a story in mind for it, and it'd tie into the fake country alluded to in that earlier gun flavor descriptor. Your changes work for me, BTW. I'll up the cost by 15% for a normal rifle by your measure, to represent it.
My overall idea is a foreign immigrant from a soviet-analog nation who's slow to speak but quick to act, with a preference to the straight forward approach. I'll work on it to make things more unique In time, but that's the Base of it.
Think I might take up half-orc, but ofc, there's still plenty of time. I do have a story in mind for it, and it'd tie into the fake country alluded to in that earlier gun flavor descriptor. Your changes work for me, BTW. I'll up the cost by 15% for a normal rifle by your measure, to represent it.
My overall idea is a foreign immigrant from a soviet-analog nation who's slow to speak but quick to act, with a preference to the straight forward approach. I'll work on it to make things more unique In time, but that's the Base of it.
Sounds good to me. No rush at all. Plenty of Azlanti to shoot in the meantime.
Those look good to me. The only thing I'd note is that a strength build is going to be tough to pull off, since a dex build is so obviously the superior when armour is much less valuable.
I think I'll go for a human Britanglian (hah!) noble, or possibly disgraced noble, whose family practised the arcane in secret even when it didn't work, and were rather startled when it did. I mean, the British nobility gets up to odd stuff as it is (like the Duke of Northumberland needs to sleep one night a year at Warkworth Castle or lose his title, which I know because I grew up next to Warkworth Castle) so it makes sense. Interesting idea on templates. I don't think I'll use one, but I do like them so I might change my brain on that.
Yeah, I get that a strength build isn't super thr best optinised choice, but damn if it wouldn't still be fun. It's why I'm going for Urban Barbarian as an archetype, as thatvallows me to rage with a dex bonus instead of strength. His dexterity won't be super low either though, as he does still need it for using his gun as a gun after all.
Might pick up invulnerable rager too for that increased DR... I'll play around with it.
Those look good to me. The only thing I'd note is that a strength build is going to be tough to pull off, since a dex build is so obviously the superior when armour is much less valuable.
To an extent, although you're getting Almost-Plate level as a martial AC bonus from Defense alone. Throw a Natural Armor amulet on top of that and you're about the same place magic armor would have put you anyway, plus it works against toughness.
How will you be figuring HP? While I don't plan on being evil, what will your alignment stance be?
Well, we are escaped convicts. Even if we're somewhat innocent. I'm not sure lawful good will be a good choice.
Not so much escaped convicts as wrongfully branded criminals, I'd say. I'll be playing a barbarian though so not like that matters anyhow haha.
I'm playing with a couple builds by the way, one of which is a human using the Giant template. Just to see how it shapes up.
If you're going giant, I'd definitely play it more on the low end of large. It's hard to keep a low profile when you're 12' tall and can't fit in a train or a carriage. Alternately maybe a ring or something giving you "reduce person" at will would be possible (which would have made sense for them to provide you with before they sent you out in the first place).
As far as alignment, I think we'll just go with the traditional system, but I can be flexible on class requirements for most classes (paladin and antipaladin being notable exceptions).
Essentially, you were "wrongfully branded" in the sense that you were ordered to do something in war and then left out to dry, but since it WAS war, what you were doing probably involved killing people. So I can see an LG person explaining that as the requirements of war for the greater good, and a CE person seeing that as "weeeee killie killie!" Both can be very effective as soldiers. Same goes for the merc missions you'll be choosing from. Generally you'll have clients who legit need help, so the good guy will be "hey, we have to help these people" and the evil guy would be "don't care as long as I can shoot somebody."
There's upsides and downsides between the to builds I have, though both actually even out damage wise. Weird that. When it comes to Level adjustment, will a template character always be behind regular? Will they "accumulate experience" at different rates, like say leveling up halfway through an adventure as opposed to at the end with the rest of the party?
I'm kinda tempted to go with the giant human route even if it's ultimately less optimized. It sounds more interesting from a flavor standpoint...
Regarding that, would the ring be something I'd have to pay out for? I'd assume that it'd have to be attuned to him alone to prevent magic item abuse, unless you're not as worried about that.
I think technically you're supposed to allow characters with templates to eventually catch up, because at higher levels the templates are worth less than they were. I'd have to think on that a little more. I want it to matter for at least a couple levels, but if after that it seems like not a huge deal, I'll allow the adjustment to be reduced or removed.
The ring I'd just give to you, because I think it will be problematic transporting a giant around without being seen. Yeah, I would prefer the ring only worked on you (or at least only moving Large to Medium).
I think I’ve settled on my character concept.
A pistolero gunslinger/spellscar drifter cavalier. Basically a wandering cowboy who’s in it to help the common man.
We’re level eight?
Level 9 I believed, could be wrong. No background skills, and only two traits period (IE; drawback for a third)?
9th is correct (minus template CR and -1 if you adjust your race up to 20 RP). Two traits, you CAN get a 3rd for another drawback, or two more by spending a Feat.
Could I use Insatiable to represent an increased caloric intake and the general difficulty of accomodating his natural size?
Debating if Superstition would be a good rage power to boost up his lower will save (Well, any save being called to roll really but generally will), or if it'd even make much sense considering the setting. It's +5 as a level 8, +7 during normal rage. With human Fav class bonuses I can get a +6 superstition ability, which would really boost his survival rate against spells and abilities.
On a non-crunch note, what is this setting's 'Common'? I've assumed so far in my heard that it would be 'Brittin', in keeping with real world analogs.
I'm so tempted to suggest the common tongue be 'Royal' from the Britanglian Empire days. SO I WILL!
And yeah, Superstitious makes perfect sense for the time period, I think, given the analogues with Earth. Hell, how many cross out of the way of black cats moving under ladders on Friday the 13th today? There was plenty of superstition against magic in our world at this kinda time, so I would imagine the same would be true here.
rando, is there a Mexico analogue you’ve established? I was thinking having one of my character’s parents be from a Mexico-esque country. If you don’t have a firm idea, I’m more than happy to flesh something out.
There is, in fact. Chicoa. However, since this is the war you all knew each other from (essentially our version of the Mexican-American war, but a little later in history), you'll have to be careful how you build your character history. It can work, a few different ways, and Mercuria and Chicoa are not currently enemies, but the war is only three years done.
Here's a bit of modern history for you guys to chew on:
5370 - The Industrial Age begins in Pretronia.
5454 - Mercurian Richard Palo invents the revolving pistol.
5490 - Franzian Scientist Andre Curie notes several Anomalies among humans and other creatures, creatures with extreme magical power or ability.
5492 - After the ambush of a Mercurian diplomatic delegation by Chicoan troops, The Mercuria/Chicoa War begins.
5499 - The Mercuria/Chicoa War is ended with the Treaty of Allende.
5500 - A small abolition movement from the northern Mercurian state of Kirkland frees roughly two-dozen Dwarven slaves from the southern state of Vestevania. This sparks off hostilities as the abolitionists flee into neighboring Kinsland. Kinsland is neutral toward abolition, but the position is hotly contested. A skirmish occurs in Kinsland in the town of Winter between residents on either side.
5502 - Current year.
Another notable difference, in order to have the dual frictions of both "civil war" and "world war 1" type conflicts in close proximity, Mercuria and Chicoa are essentially connected to Pretronia, which fills the role of Europe, loosely. It's important to note that travel from Mercuria to the rest of the continent will be a much quicker affair than six to eight weeks.
I wanna picture that as a great trans-continental railroad, that bitterly crosses over a stretch if ocean. Putting those dwarves slaves and their architectural abilities to use.
What is the climate like in where our PCs will be located? I currently have his Extreme Endurance geared towards cold, but we're in a place that never get's winter...
How will you be figuring HP? While I don't plan on being evil, what will your alignment stance be?
While I covered Alignment above, I missed the HP Question. Roll your HP normally (or take 1/2, max 1st level). Add your Con bonus normally. And remember the Stamina Points (which are 1/2 your max HP, do not re-add Con bonus).
What is the climate like in where our PCs will be located? I currently have his Extreme Endurance geared towards cold, but we're in a place that never get's winter...
So Mercuria will have the same sorts of climates as central north America does today (well, did 100 years ago). So there are certainly places that will be cold; I can make sure to set some portion of an adventure there. Additionally, with war hanging in the air, there will probably be some missions outside the country, and certainly most of Pretronia will have seasons.
Here's a campaign map.
Seems like there's a slew of interesting spots to investigate then! If you'd like, I could try my hand at recreating that map in one of my programs. I've been without a project for some while.
Since I have a scale I can zoom in and overlay a smaller hex grid pretty easily when it comes to that, but if you want to try your hand go ahead.
Hmmm...there aren't any templates I would like to grab. The closest I could find was Prana Ghost, but being dead didn't suit the character (the picky a~%*#+!).
I did have an idea, but it's an odd one. Instead of boosting my race or adding a template, can I take some level reductions to take a free archetype? Say, start at level 7 and have two clashing archetypes?
I don't think most archetypes would have more power than a template, so I think it should be ok? I'd like to take the Lay-Line Witch as my main one and the Havocker as my bonus, mostly because that way I can do spontaneous casting (WHOO!) and get a few hexes. It'll make the character very versatile, so I won't have to just shoot people in the face with force lightning every round.
...just most rounds.
If not, I'll take Havocker anyway (it kinda inspire the character) and live with prepared casting and no hexes. Maybe boost the race a little. We'll see.
I did have an idea, but it's an odd one. Instead of boosting my race or adding a template, can I take some level reductions to take a free archetype? Say, start at level 7 and have two clashing archetypes?
Write it up for level 7 and for level 8, since you've got a while. I'll let you know which I prefer, but I would think the proposition would be acceptable one way or the other. I suspect the level 8 will be more fair; two level penalty seems more like gestalt-level extras.
Sounds fair. I'll do that.
How much is ammunition? Also, I realize that a lot of our gear is going to be pretty 'final' as far as purchased magical equipment goes, but will we be finding magical gear or is it going to be worth saving up money to buy stuff at all?
So I think I’ve finally settled on my concept. Still playing a cowboy, basically a repentant bandit who wanders the west helping the common man.
His reason for being anomalous, however, is that his mother is some sort of lingering spirit, probably an ancient and much-diminished Chicoan goddess.
That would manifest as the half-celestial template.
Given that the CR varies based on HD, and that it gets more powerful as HD increases, how do you want to handle that?
It seems like most of the CR changing comes from the spell-like abilities, which I’d be totally fine not to have.
How much is ammunition? Also, I realize that a lot of our gear is going to be pretty 'final' as far as purchased magical equipment goes, but will we be finding magical gear or is it going to be worth saving up money to buy stuff at all?
Money won't be a primary motivator in this campaign; the desire to remain free (and perhaps do some good, depending on the individual character) will handle that. That said, other magic items WILL exist. After all, the ones you have came from somewhere. Rather than think of it in terms of saving money to by something, the old method of merely "finding stuff" during adventures is more likely to come about.
How about this: if you have an item you aren't able to purchase with your initial GP, or you think of one once play has started that you'd like to have, PM me and I'll make a note of it and throw it in a future adventure, once you've accumulated enough WBL to get it, or once I think it's appropriate. I'll take turns granting item wishes, so everyone will eventually get something (s).
Given that the CR varies based on HD, and that it gets more powerful as HD increases, how do you want to handle that?
It seems like most of the CR changing comes from the spell-like abilities, which I’d be totally fine not to have.
Pick which level you want to have (of the first two) and you can stay at that level (either 8 levels +1 CR or 7 levels +2 CR, initially). If you want to purchase level 3 (which would require you to have attained 11 levels; so quite a ways into the campaign if at all) you can buy that additional level when we get there.
Cool. I’ll probably take the 8 levels + 1 CR. Stats are mostly done, just gotta work on the background, but I’ve got it partially sorted.