Stargazer, Witch, and hex access

[pad300]

Ok, a witch takes one or more levels in the Stargazer of Pulara prestige class. At first level in stargazer, he gets:

Mystery Magic (Ex): At 1st and 9th levels, the stargazer gains a hex from the witch’s list of hexes. His stargazer levels count as (and stack with) witch levels when determining the effects of hexes. In addition, the stargazer adds all hexes available to a shaman with the heavens spirit (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 40) to the witch list.

My bolding and italics. Can said Stargazer select a hex from the general shaman list, eg Fetish, rather than from the Heavens Spirit specific list (Eveloping Void, Guiding Star, Heaven's Leap, Lure of the Heavens & Starburn)?

[Melkiador]

Huh. It looks like, yes? I think Isabelle Lee worked on that one, so maybe she will fill us in on intent. But if it were supposed to be limited to just the hexes from the spirit, I feel it would have been easier to just say, "all hexes from the shaman's heavens spirit", which would be shorter than what we got.

[Derklord]

If you want to know the author intend, PM Isabelle Lee with a link to this thread. She usually responds quickly to such pleas.

[Isabelle Lee]

Hmm. By the wording I wrote, it does seem so. I don't recall that I actually intended for it to be so... this was the second product I ever contributed to, and I was still getting the hang of the subtleties of the wording (to say nothing of the power level).

Nevertheless, looking at it, I'd say that's how it works. Besides, Pulurans tend to be a northernish sort, and it makes sense that their best and brightest might pick up more general shamanic secrets in their delvings. ^_^

[Derklord]

I don't think it makes that much of a difference, anyway - seriously, what hexes are on the generic Shaman list that are worth picking for someone with access to the Witch list?

Silkstring Snare* is probably the most interesting for a regular Witch because of the reflex save. Shapeshift might have some uses, but that's more non-combat than anything and thus won't be problematic. The one with the most potential to notably change the character is Chant, which doesn't have the "once per round" FAQ that Crackle has (and even if the GM applies that FAQ to it, you could have both Chant and Crackle), to add duration to the Fortune and Pretectice Luck hexes pre-combat.

*) Which did not exist when the Stargazer was written.

[pad300]

Derklord wrote:

I don't think it makes that much of a difference, anyway - seriously, what hexes are on the generic Shaman list that are worth picking for someone with access to the Witch list?

Silkstring Snare* is probably the most interesting for a regular Witch because of the reflex save. Shapeshift might have some uses, but that's more non-combat than anything and thus won't be problematic. The one with the most potential to notably change the character is Chant, which doesn't have the "once per round" FAQ that Crackle has (and even if the GM applies that FAQ to it, you could have both Chant and Crackle), to add duration to the Fortune and Pretectice Luck hexes pre-combat.

*) Which did not exist when the Stargazer was written.

Also,

1) Fetish
2) Shapeshift has some advantages over Animal Skin (and some disavantages too)

Also, Ritual Hex feat, to get access to specialized things (like Fetish...)

[Artificial 20]

I use it to pick up Secret for a bonus Metamagic feat.

Because when all your stars align~

[Derklord]

Fetish is just a bonus feat, i.e. nothing the character in question doesn't have access to anyway, and a bonus to a very specific use of a skill (that keys off what's probably your main ability score, and for which you have a 1st level spell that grants a bonus 2.5 times as large).

Seeing as you'd have to wait at least three more levels, I'd argue that the hex is actually worse than just taking the feat.

[pad300]

Derklord wrote:

Fetish is just a bonus feat, i.e. nothing the character in question doesn't have access to anyway, and a bonus to a very specific use of a skill (that keys off what's probably your main ability score, and for which you have a 1st level spell that grants a bonus 2.5 times as large).

Seeing as you'd have to wait at least three more levels, I'd argue that the hex is actually worse than just taking the feat.

The really big issue is Ritual Hex, which can then allow you a "floating" hex, flexing between say Fetish in downtime (magic item creation), through assorted specialized useful tools - Secret > your choice of metamagic (Threnodic spell in an undead heavy dungeon?), Disrupt the Connection hex if you know you are fighting a summoner... through something general purpose that you didn't already have if you have no information.

[Derklord]

Considering how long it takes before you can savely cast the Ritual (3 out of 4 DC20 skill checks) to use it safely when adventuring, I don't see the "really big issue" at all.

[pad300]

Derklord wrote:

Considering how long it takes before you can savely cast the Ritual (3 out of 4 DC20 skill checks) to use it safely when adventuring, I don't see the "really big issue" at all.

I take it you play mostly lower level.

Let's see - 7th level : 7 ranks +3 class skill + 5 int = 15. + "investigate mind" (it lasts 70 minutes, longer than the ritual and works for 7 checks) >>> roll twice for each check at +15... that's really good odds.

At 10th, 10 ranks +3 class skill + 6 int = 19. It's trivial...

You want major hexes? Throw Tears to Wine down, and that's trivial... (after 10th, when you have access, of course).

[Derklord]

I still don't see the "really big issue". Honestly, if that's the worst a Witch does, the GM should be glad. It's also either an issue at level 11+ only, or it delays the level the Witch gets Split Hex and Major Hexes.