Does Feyspeaker "remove" or 'delay" the 4th level use of Wild Shape?


Rules Questions


What it says in the title.


feyspeaker wrote:
She gains the wild shape ability at 6th level and gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual.


Yes, I read that? It doesn't answer my question?


Then I don't understand the question. It tells you that at 6th level you have the wild shaping ability of a 4th level druid, and you will continue to have the wild shaping ability of a vanilla druid 2 levels lower for the rest of your career. Translate that into remove or delay how you will.


The problem here is that it doesn't specify what "gains the wild shape ability at 6th level" and "gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual" actually means. Or if "gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual" includes Wild Shape uses.

The Exchange

at 6, treat as 4th/ small medium and 4 hours


Anarchy_Kanya wrote:
The problem here is that it doesn't specify what "gains the wild shape ability at 6th level" and "gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual" actually means. Or if "gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual" includes Wild Shape uses.

It is very specific. Subtract 2 from your Feyspeaker's druid level. That is your effective druid level as far as Wild Shape is concerned. For All Purposes.


Except that's not what it says. There's no "substracting" going on. The text is different than, say, something like Bear Shaman archetype's text.
My guess is they wanted to delay the whole Wild Shape ability by two levels, but frazed it in a wierd way, making it read as if you gained WS at 6th AND then gained its benefits two levels later, thus by RAW giving you WS at 8th.
Nevermind. I'll just make a ruling on my own. I apologize for wasting your time.


If this is too confusing for you pathfinder might not be the game for you. It doesn’t get much more basic than this


Anarchy_Kanya wrote:
My guess is they wanted to delay the whole Wild Shape ability by two levels, but frazed it in a wierd way, making it read as if you gained WS at 6th AND then gained its benefits two levels later, thus by RAW giving you WS at 8th.

No, that's not in any way what the text says. A Feyspeaker gains "all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual." Usual means compared to a non-archetyped Druid, as that's literally the only thing that makes sense.

When 99% of all Druids gain WS at 4th level, and you gain it at 6th level, the latter is not "usual".


The archetype is in the Kingmaker video game. All wildshape benefits are delayed 2 levels there.


deuxhero wrote:
The archetype is in the Kingmaker video game. All wildshape benefits are delayed 2 levels there.

it does the exact same thing here.


If it JUST said "gains benefits 2 levels later than usual" then that would be clear, 2 levels later than 4th is 6th afterall, but it doesn't. It explicitly moves WS to 6th and delays the features by 2 levels. I'm allowed to be confused when there's at least two ways to write the rule in a much clearer and simpler way.
You have a point with the word "usual", though. I can see that it can mean what you say it means.


Anarchy_Kanya wrote:

If it JUST said "gains benefits 2 levels later than usual" then that would be clear, 2 levels later than 4th is 6th afterall, but it doesn't. It explicitly moves WS to 6th and delays the features by 2 levels. I'm allowed to be confused when there's at least two ways to write the rule in a much clearer and simpler way.

You have a point with the word "usual", though. I can see that it can mean what you say it means.

If it only said you gain the benefits two levels later you would still get wildshape at 4 that’s why it says both. It’s not hard to grasp

You gain wildshape at 6 and everything about it is delayed by 2 levels. If you normally get something at 6 you don’t get it till 8, if you get something at 14 now 16


Ok look. There is a 100% consensus that you gain it at 6th and then treat yourself as a normal druid just everything is 2 levels behind. 6-2=4 9-2=7 and so on.

That's it. You have your answer. There will not be an opposing view.


What they all have said.

Cavall has the gift of foresight!


vhok wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
The archetype is in the Kingmaker video game. All wildshape benefits are delayed 2 levels there.
it does the exact same thing here.

I know. Just throwing it out as further evidence.


Just to explain the seeming discrepancy in the text between feyspeaker and bear shaman, and perhaps this explanation will help you to understand how any why it works the way we are telling you it does.

Bear shaman still grants you wild shape at 4th, but at 6th their wild shape becomes specialized. She gains +2 effective levels when taking the form of a bear, but all other forms are weaker, treating her as 2 levels lower.

The feyspeaker on the other hand doesn’t get wild shape until lv6 and the progression is delayed by 2 levels from that of a normal Druid.

There is also the Leshy Warden Druid that doesn’t get Wildshape until 6th, but still gets the full effect of wild shape as a 6th level Druid with no delay other than uses per day.


Anarchy_Kanya wrote:

If it JUST said "gains benefits 2 levels later than usual" then that would be clear, 2 levels later than 4th is 6th afterall, but it doesn't. It explicitly moves WS to 6th and delays the features by 2 levels. I'm allowed to be confused when there's at least two ways to write the rule in a much clearer and simpler way.

You have a point with the word "usual", though. I can see that it can mean what you say it means.

Maybe you should actually read what Wild Shape actually says and apply the modifications because actually looking at the text and doing what Feyspeaker says would make everything clear. Lets try it a bit.

'Wild Shape' wrote:
At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day.

Feyspeaker says you don't get Wild Shape till you are 6th level. Then at 6th level, you get the benefits 2 levels later than usual. So you gain the 4th level ability 2 levels later...at 6th when your Feyspeaker first gets Wild Shape. The next time that Wild Shape talks about level is

'Wild Shape' wrote:
A druid can use this ability an additional time per day at 6th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of eight times at 18th level. At 20th level, a druid can use wild shape at will.

Delay 2 levels means you get one additional use at 8th level, eight uses at 20th level and a Feyspeaker NEVER gets to use Wild Shape at will because they can't become 22nd level druids.

Continue modifying the text for the rest of the entry in the same manner.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Does Feyspeaker "remove" or 'delay" the 4th level use of Wild Shape? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.