| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would imagine you would use the better of the two skills.
If you want to use Craft, you use its values. If your Medicines skill is better, you can still use that.
You could not mix the two, such as making a Craft check, but using your Medicines training level.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gonna have to disagree with both of the above.
Treat Wounds, and other actions that require or check for proficiency, only ask about your training in Medicine. The chirurgeon feature lets you substitute medicine checks for craft checks, but says nothing about also substituting any skill requirements.
Your crafting proficiency is completely irrelevant except insofar as determining what bonuses you have to the check.
|
Gonna have to disagree with both of the above.
Treat Wounds, and other actions that require or check for proficiency, only ask about your training in Medicine. The chirurgeon feature lets you substitute medicine checks for craft checks, but says nothing about also substituting any skill requirements.
Your crafting proficiency is completely irrelevant except insofar as determining what bonuses you have to the check.
I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
Edit:I believe the above person answered this.
I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. It's still a trained usage of Medicine, and is therefore valid for Chirurgeon. It just gets additional riders if you're higher proficiency in Medicine, but is still a trained usage.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. It's still a trained usage of Medicine, and is therefore valid for Chirurgeon. It just gets additional riders if you're higher proficiency in Medicine, but is still a trained usage.
It gets additional options, aye, but requires you to actually reach those ranks in Medicine.
So even if you're an Expert in Crafting, you can't attempt the Expert grade check until you're an Expert in Medicine.
That being said, you don't need to be an Expert in Crafting to attempt the harder checks, provided you already have the appropriate Medicine rank. You shouldn't (the math is not on your side), but you can.
Now, it turns out it's not really a downside, assuming that as an Alchemist you were already planning on investing in Medicine and Crafting anyway. Someone else calculated the optimal curve for when you should be using Expert, Master and Legendary Medicine checks, and if you always raise your Crafting first (at 3rd, 7th and 15th)and then your Medicine with the next skill increases (5th, 9th, and never bother with putting Medicine to Legendary), you end up being pretty much on the curve anyway.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Chirurgeon gives you the ability to use craft instead of medicine rolls for untrained and trained uses of medicine.
Treat wounds is a trained usage that unlocks extra options if you have higher proficiency in medicine, it does not become an "expert/master/legendary usage" as far as the rules are concerned, that would be a weird reading and ignoring the conventions in the section.
So.
Chirurgeon
- If you are trained in medicine you can roll craft for treat wounds checks.
- If you are expert or higher in medicine you can attempt harder DCs and get better results. This has no impact on your medicine to craft roll replacement and as long as you qualify with your medicine proficiency you can replace the roll with a craft roll.
The "trained" part of Chirurgeon's text is purely referring to "trained" part in brackets of skill uses.
It gets additional options, aye, but requires you to actually reach those ranks in Medicine.So even if you're an Expert in Crafting, you can't attempt the Expert grade check until you're an Expert in Medicine.
That being said, you don't need to be an Expert in Crafting to attempt the harder checks, provided you already have the appropriate Medicine rank. You shouldn't (the math is not on your side), but you can.
Now, it turns out it's not really a downside, assuming that as an Alchemist you were already planning on investing in Medicine and Crafting anyway. Someone else calculated the optimal curve for when you should be using Expert, Master and Legendary Medicine checks, and if you always raise your Crafting first (at 3rd, 7th and 15th)and then your Medicine with the next skill increases (5th, 9th, and never bother with putting Medicine to Legendary), you end up being pretty much on the curve anyway.
Well, it was more directed at those who were arguing Expert Treat Wounds was considered to be an "expert use", and therefore Crafting couldn't be rolled for the Treat Wounds check if you had Expert in Medicine.
Treat wounds is a trained Action not a trained usage. There is a difference.
It is both, but sure 100% give me your reasoning as to why it works the way you are suggesting it works and not the other way.
I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
Why wouldn't you just use Medicine?
Why wouldn't you just use Medicine?I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
Probably a higher bonus in crafting because alchemist.
Probably a higher bonus in crafting because alchemist.Why wouldn't you just use Medicine?I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
In the example given though, Medicine seems to have the higher level of training (Expert in Medicine vs Trained in Crafting). For the final modifiers to tie, you'd have to have an Intelligence score 4 points higher than your Wisdom score. You'd need it at least 6 points higher to break the tie. And that's only if the training differs by one step. If it's a wider gap, Crafting might never catch up.
|
In the example given though, Medicine seems to have the higher level of training (Expert in Medicine vs Trained in Crafting). For the final modifiers to tie, you'd have to have an Intelligence score 4 points higher than your Wisdom score. You'd need it at least 6 points higher to break the tie. And that's only if the training differs by one step. If it's a wider gap, Crafting might never catch up.Probably a higher bonus in crafting because alchemist.Why wouldn't you just use Medicine?I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
Correct, but it's not uncommon to see (at least to me, so far) an alchemist with a WIS of 10 or 12, and an INT of 18.
Correct, but it's not uncommon to see (at least to me, so far) an alchemist with a WIS of 10 or 12, and an INT of 18.In the example given though, Medicine seems to have the higher level of training (Expert in Medicine vs Trained in Crafting). For the final modifiers to tie, you'd have to have an Intelligence score 4 points higher than your Wisdom score. You'd need it at least 6 points higher to break the tie. And that's only if the training differs by one step. If it's a wider gap, Crafting might never catch up.Probably a higher bonus in crafting because alchemist.Why wouldn't you just use Medicine?I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
It evens out with tools: you can't ever gain a tool bonus using craft as the rolls require using healers tools and those require 2 hands. So if you get Healer's Tools (Expanded) and you have a 12 wis you're only 2 behind craft. Then as you level up, that 12 can raise up quicker than the 18 so the gap just lessens even if you keep up both skills.
Calling Treat wounds a trained usage is not correct. It is a trained action. So with the ability they could do Treat wounds with Craft check. However, when you use Treat wounds you decide if you are USING the trained, expert, master or Legendary DC's. Treat wounds is the only place that any of this would apply in the list of medicine skill actions currently.
Otherwise, It would have just said that the craft could be used on any trained or untrained actions.
The things is, you are arguing specific terms and then using a term that isn't specific/codified in your justification. Also having expert medicine ALLOWS for higher checks, but it doesn't say it is an expert medicine or higher "use" just that it unlocks the ability when you get the proficiency. (this is to say, it is a trained use which gains further abilities by meeting prerequisites).
It is far more reasonable/likely to assume that use is there as both a colloquialism and so that it encompasses both actions and activities (exploration/downtime) rather than just skill actions. Helping to future proof the ability.
However, if you can find other examples of use being used in similar situations that is exclusionary I would be interested. I have just had a search through the pdf myself and haven't found anything to support it though.
I have however found "you must be trained in -insert skill- to use it for the following actions" under trained actions for a number of skills that refer to general actions/activities.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Am I assuming this correctly that if you are a Chirurgeon, and you are expert in medicine, you can only treat wounds at the trained level (not expert) if you want to use your crafting skill to do the check?
If you are a Chirurgeon Alchemist with a Medicine Skill proficiency level of Trained and a Crafting Skill proficiency level of Expert and you want to perform the Treat Wounds Medicine Trained Action you could perform the DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10 using a Crafting Skill check.
You are not limited to the DC 15 check.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Master you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Legendary you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Am I assuming this correctly that if you are a Chirurgeon, and you are expert in medicine, you can only treat wounds at the trained level (not expert) if you want to use your crafting skill to do the check?If you are a Chirurgeon Alchemist with a Medicine Skill proficiency level of Trained and a Crafting Skill proficiency level of Expert and you want to perform the Treat Wounds Medicine Trained Action you could perform the DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10 using a Crafting Skill check.
You are not limited to the DC 15 check.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Master you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Legendary you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50.
This is 100% incorrect as written n the game: the DC increases are locked to medicine level and nothing in the alchemist ability changes that much like it doesn't allow you to avoid using healer's tools as that too is required by the medicine skill. The ONLY thing it does is "you can attempt a Crafting check instead of a Medicine check for any of Medicine’s untrained and trained uses." I can see no mental gymnastics that'd allow that to allow for level locked DC's of greater than trained. Even if you say that the action is unlocked by the training clause, nothing allows for ignoring other restrictions.
Now I will say I'd like for the craft skill to be used 100% for the ability: like 'As long as your proficiency rank in Medicine is trained or better, you can use Crafting instead of Medicine for all checks, uses, requirements and restrictions. This includes using alchemist tools instead of healers tools.'
If you are a Chirurgeon Alchemist with a Medicine Skill proficiency level of Trained and a Crafting Skill proficiency level of Expert and you want to perform the Treat Wounds Medicine Trained Action you could perform the DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10 using a Crafting Skill check.You are not limited to the DC 15 check.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Master you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Legendary you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50.
I am with Graystone here, it just lets you use craft for the rolls, not for any of the prerequisites. Much in the same way that as written it wouldn't allow you to qualify for continual healing if you had expert crafting.
|
|
It evens out with tools: you can't ever gain a tool bonus using craft as the rolls require using healers tools and those require 2 hands. So if you get Healer's Tools (Expanded) and you have a 12 wis you're only 2 behind craft. Then as you level up, that 12 can raise up quicker than the 18 so the gap just lessens even if you keep up both skills.Correct, but it's not uncommon to see (at least to me, so far) an alchemist with a WIS of 10 or 12, and an INT of 18.In the example given though, Medicine seems to have the higher level of training (Expert in Medicine vs Trained in Crafting). For the final modifiers to tie, you'd have to have an Intelligence score 4 points higher than your Wisdom score. You'd need it at least 6 points higher to break the tie. And that's only if the training differs by one step. If it's a wider gap, Crafting might never catch up.Probably a higher bonus in crafting because alchemist.Why wouldn't you just use Medicine?I am specifically asking about using Crafting for an Expert level health check (DC 20, you heal an additional 10 health points) assuming I am a Chirurgeon and I have expert level medicine (more specifically, that the chirurgeon ability only counts towards untrained and trained checks.
I'm not so sure you are correct on this... regardless of having healer's tools, an Artisan's Craft - 'Alchemy' set of tools would also provide a bonus.
Also, your specialty crafting - Alchemy bonus could very well apply, as well.
I'm not so sure you are correct on this... regardless of having healer's tools, an Artisan's Craft - 'Alchemy' set of tools would also provide a bonus.
Also, your specialty crafting - Alchemy bonus could very well apply, as well.
No...
Treat wounds requires a healer tools to use. Healers tools require 2 hands to use. Alchemy tools require 2 hands. PC's only have 2 hands. Hence, there is NO way to hold both sets of tools so you could get a bonus on your craft checks as the healers tools are MUST.
Unless of course you want to argue that you don't have to use the kit as it just says required but then you're arguing that people using Medicine also don't actually have to use healers tools and if that's the case the requirement has no meaning and I don't see that being the case.
Honestly alchemist has other issues with number of hands like Alchemical Alacrity requiring 3 hands to hold and requires 3 actions to use even though you only get 2 more at most without taking an extra feat. The whole class could use a makeover IMO.
|
|
Intent is always questionable, by my thoughts is the intent is to allow the chirugeon to use his alchemy knowledge, skills, and tools (whipping up poultices, etc, to make those checks using craft.
As far as the written rules, goes, the alchimist is -not- making a medicine check. Thus healer's tools actually provide him no benefit. This causes a small glitch in the rules.
Remember. Healer's tools say they are used for MEDICINE checks. The alc isn't making a medicine check. The alch is making a craft check.
I'm not arguing that using medicine does not requires the healer's kit. But the healer's kit is -only- used for medicine skill checks. Not for craft skill checks.
Intent is always questionable
Don't really care about intent, I'm talking about the words that were written in the rules. I've pointed out these issues to devs already in other threads and from the sound of it it's not working currently as intended but we'll see what it actually ends up looking like.
As far as the written rules, goes, the alchimist is -not- making a medicine check. Thus healer's tools actually provide him no benefit. This causes a small glitch in the rules.
Remember. Healer's tools say they are used for MEDICINE checks. The alc isn't making a medicine check. The alch is making a craft check.
I'm not arguing that using medicine does not requires the healer's kit. But the healer's kit is -only- used for medicine skill checks. Not for craft skill checks.
Irrelevant as you're using the medicine action [treat wounds] and that action has requirements. Medicine itself has NO requirement: for example you can Recall Knowledge without a kit so it's not the skill but the action that has it's own requirements no matter if you're using the action with craft or medicine.
Treat Wounds action:
"Requirements You have healer’s tools."
"If you’re an expert in Medicine, you can instead attempt a DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10; if you’re a master of Medicine, you can instead attempt a DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30; and if you’re legendary, you can instead attempt a DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50."
Nothing alters the action's requirements for tools or DC increase.
|
|
Intent is always questionableDon't really care about intent, I'm talking about the words that were written in the rules. I've pointed out these issues to devs already in other threads and from the sound of it it's not working currently as intended but we'll see what it actually ends up looking like.
As far as the written rules, goes, the alchimist is -not- making a medicine check. Thus healer's tools actually provide him no benefit. This causes a small glitch in the rules.
Remember. Healer's tools say they are used for MEDICINE checks. The alc isn't making a medicine check. The alch is making a craft check.
I'm not arguing that using medicine does not requires the healer's kit. But the healer's kit is -only- used for medicine skill checks. Not for craft skill checks.
Irrelevant as you're using the medicine action [treat wounds] and that action has requirements. Medicine itself has NO requirement: for example you can Recall Knowledge without a kit so it's not the skill but the action that has it's own requirements no matter if you're using the action with craft or medicine.
Treat Wounds action:
"Requirements You have healer’s tools."
"If you’re an expert in Medicine, you can instead attempt a DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10; if you’re a master of Medicine, you can instead attempt a DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30; and if you’re legendary, you can instead attempt a DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50."Nothing alters the action's requirements for tools or DC increase.
Except somethings -does- alter the action's requirement. The fact that, as written, healer's tool -cannot- be used for craft skill checks.
This means, as I said before, there is a glitch. (Which the devs are aware of.)
This also means that -any- interpretation you or I make about how it is supposed to work is just a guess at the intent of the rules. NOT just "the words that are written in the rules."
Now, if, because of the glitches, you feel the mechanic simply doesn't work at all, and is meaningless, that's fine, in your games. Nothing is wrong with waiting to see what the devs decide to do about it.
However, Intent MUST be considered. You have stated that a healer's kit requires two hands. Period. This means that when attempting a first aid check (according to you) one cannot roll the patient over, straighten a finger, hold a wound closed to stitch it, or ANY of the common actions one does when applying aid.
I'm under the belief that their intent is to allow that. Even though that is not, according to you, what the rules allow.
The rules, while rules, almost always require a guess about the intent behind them. A strict following of every iota of the rules simply does not work.
Except somethings -does- alter the action's requirement.
Where? Please quote where it does. It changes the skill used to make the roll: full stop. Noting alters the requirements.
The fact that, as written, healer's tool -cannot- be used for craft skill checks.
Irrelevant: the action requires it. If you insist on alchemist tools being required too, that just means that the entire ability is unusable as it sits. Secondly, not all craft checks require a tool. You can recall knowledge, for example, without it so you're violating nothing by having to use healers tools even if they don't modify the roll. So as written written it works, it just works poorly.
This means, as I said before, there is a glitch. (Which the devs are aware of.)
Oh, that's for sure. The only thing that matters is what to do till it's fixed. The why I presented the only way to read it as written that works IMO.
This also means that -any- interpretation you or I make about how it is supposed to work is just a guess at the intent of the rules. NOT just "the words that are written in the rules."
Disagree: craft says "You have an appropriate set of tools" [to use the craft action by the way, NOT the treat wounds action] and I'd argue that for a treat wounds action check that fits the bill no matter the check type. Tools seem action locked, not skill locked. Honestly, I can't see how you could ever gain a bonus from alchemy tools, or even use the tools, in this roll as nothing tells you they are needed or add to it roll.
"You need an alchemist’s lab to Craft alchemical items during downtime. An expanded alchemist’s lab gives a +1 item bonus to Crafting checks to create alchemical items." A treat wound action isn't a Craft action check and as such, isn't required NOR does it provided a bonus to an action other than the Craft action: a Crafting check [skill] isn't a Craft check [action].
Add to that that GM's are can allow improvised tools [see pick locks] so I see little difference here. Only one interpretation makes it unusable and the other doesn't... It's clear to me which one to use. Or you houserule it but that's another discussion.
However, Intent MUST be considered. You have stated that a healer's kit requires two hands.
The GAME/RULES have stated such.
Alchemist's Tools "Hands 2" Core Rulebook pg. 289
Alchemist's Lab "Hands 2" Rulebook pg. 287
Healer's Tools "Hands 2" Core Rulebook pg. 290
"You’re wielding an item any time you’re holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you’re not just carrying it around—you’re ready to use it." Core Rulebook pg. 272
The item requires a number of hands and the action requires healers tools. I'm not sure where the debate is here. Intent doesn't override the words in the rules that set forth requirements. If your idea of how first aid works doesn't mesh with this, you have an issue with the basic rules as written: hands needed is the basis of most equipment that's actively used. Would you argue that a two handed sword is wieldable in one hand because it's possible to rest it on your shoulder and hold it in one hand: the game makes it clear taking hands off an item is an action and I don't see why tools would get a pass... The chart even states "item" not weapon for hand changes, so all those actions you mentioned in first aid take an action to remove a hand and then another to add.
Now such actions could be assumed in the 10 min treat wounds action if that makes your head canon fit better but I don't see how doing even this would be allowing juggling 2 sets of tool that both requiring 2 hands [or how you'd get a bonus to a non-Craft action].
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
TBH I don't even think it should be particularly controversial.
Treat Wounds says you need healer tools to use it.
Treat Wounds has a scaling effect based on the training of your medicine level.
Nothing about the Chirurgeon feature even implies altering either of those. So you don't.
Does this ultimately make it kind of an underwhelming ability? Yeah, but to be honest that's consistent with the rest of the alchemist's kit and how hesitant PF2 has been about skill replacing effects in general.
|
|
Am I assuming this correctly that if you are a Chirurgeon, and you are expert in medicine, you can only treat wounds at the trained level (not expert) if you want to use your crafting skill to do the check?If you are a Chirurgeon Alchemist with a Medicine Skill proficiency level of Trained and a Crafting Skill proficiency level of Expert and you want to perform the Treat Wounds Medicine Trained Action you could perform the DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10 using a Crafting Skill check.
You are not limited to the DC 15 check.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Master you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30.
Once your Crafting Skill proficiency level reaches Legendary you can use a Crafting Skill check to perform the Treat Wounds action with the DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50.
This is 100% incorrect as written n the game: the DC increases are locked to medicine level and nothing in the alchemist ability changes that much like it doesn't allow you to avoid using healer's tools as that too is required by the medicine skill. The ONLY thing it does is "you can attempt a Crafting check instead of a Medicine check for any of Medicine’s untrained and trained uses." I can see no mental gymnastics that'd allow that to allow for level locked DC's of greater than trained. Even if you say that the action is unlocked by the training clause, nothing allows for ignoring other restrictions.
Now I will say I'd like for the craft skill to be used 100% for the ability: like 'As long as your proficiency rank in Medicine is trained or better, you can use Crafting instead of Medicine for all checks, uses, requirements and restrictions. This includes using alchemist tools instead of healers tools.'
My interpretation of the CRB matches your last paragraph. This is now a Rules Discussion and I would suggest that further discussion be moved to that Subforum. I would like to see some Ruling on this issue from Paizo. I see this as yet another area of the CRB where the designer's did not clarify their intent properly.
My interpretation of the CRB matches your last paragraph.
I'd call it houserule vs interpretation: The ability just plain doesn't do that. Wish it did but true substitutions seems like something the devs want to avoid like the plague even if they have to make an ability "underwhelming" to do so.
This is now a Rules Discussion and I would suggest that further discussion be moved to that Subforum.
It was always either rules [ie what's the rule actually do] or advice [ie how I should actual run/use it].
I would like to see some Ruling on this issue from Paizo.
We've got a rule. I'd like a fix/FAQ/errata.
I see this as yet another area of the CRB where the designer's did not clarify their intent properly.
IMO, it just gets tossed into the bin of many other issues with the alchemist class. As Squiggit put it, a lot of the class is "underwhelming" so it's VERY hard to claim knowing intent when the reason for thinking intent doesn't match the rules is a particular ability is "underwhelming"...
Sorry graystone, I just don't agree with the statement "The ability just plain doesn't do that". In my interpretation of the Rules As Written - it just plain *does*.
I am not trying to change your mind, but nothing written here will change mine.
... Please point out something in the written rules that allows Crafting to count as Medicine for requirements and restrictions. No matter how i look at it, I can't see how it's possible, so I have to call it a houserule. That's just 100% outside RAW and beyond what can be called an interpretation of what's written. Now if you want to call it an interpretation of what you think the intent of it was and you based your houserule on it, I could go with that but I can't see any way it can be thought of as RAW.
If you don't have anything else to point to as a basis of you're interpretation to present, I'm happy to drop it with this but don't expect me to not call it how I see it: a houserule.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
expert in both to do expert dc etc
Actually you never have to increase your craft skill: everything, other than the modifiers to the roll, is based off your Medicine skill. Trained craft and legendary medicine allows you to make a "DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50" for Craft rolls for instance. The class actually doesn't need to ever raise it's craft alchemy unless they want to make items in downtime because when using Infused Reagents "You don’t need to attempt a Crafting check". As such, a Chirugeon is actually better off just raising medicine, IMO, as they then have more skill increases to use and then actually qualify for DC increases and medicine feats.[unless of course they want to craft without infused reagents]
This of course sidesteps the ability altogether, but it was "underwhelming" even when you jumped through all the hoops to make it work.
|
|
Sorry graystone, I just don't agree with the statement "The ability just plain doesn't do that". In my interpretation of the Rules As Written - it just plain *does*.
I am not trying to change your mind, but nothing written here will change mine.
... Please point out something in the written rules that allows Crafting to count as Medicine for requirements and restrictions. No matter how i look at it, I can't see how it's possible, so I have to call it a houserule. That's just 100% outside RAW and beyond what can be called an interpretation of what's written. Now if you want to call it an interpretation of what you think the intent of it was and you based your houserule on it, I could go with that but I can't see any way it can be thought of as RAW.
If you don't have anything else to point to as a basis of you're interpretation to present, I'm happy to drop it with this but don't expect me to not call it how I see it: a houserule.
"As long as your proficiency rank in Medicine is trained or better, you can attempt a Crafting check instead of a Medicine check for any of Medicine’s untrained and trained uses."
My interpretation of the above sentence is what allows the use of the Crafting skill (and its proficiency level) to replace the Medicine skill (and its proficiency level) in the Treat Wounds action (and all other Medicine Skills actions).
On Page 234 of the CRB:
"When you’re actively using a skill, often by performing one of its actions, you might attempt a skill check: rolling a d20 and adding your skill modifier. To determine this modifier, add your ability modifier for the skill’s key ability, your proficiency bonus for the skill, and any other bonuses and penalties."
If you are going to use the Crafting Skill check and apply your proficiency bonus for the Crafting Skill, then that proficiency should be the one that matters when performing the Treat Wounds action.
You do not agree with that assessment - I get that, but that is my interpretation: You should use the proficiency of the Skill being used whenever proficiency matters for that Skill check.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
PC's only have 2 hands.
Tars Tarkas has four. :-)