Does magical Healing Remove Wounded Condition?


Rules Discussion


I know that anytime you lose the dying condition, you gain the wounded condition, but from what I can find in the rule book and on Archives of Nethys, the only way to remove the wounded condition is with treat wounds, or by being fully healed and resting for 10 minutes.

My Question is: Would magical healing a second time (after removing the dying condition) remove wounded?

I know that magical healing could eventually restore you to full health and you could rest, but it seems odd that mundane healing from Treat Wounds can do something that magical healing cannot easily do.

Here is a quote:

Quote:
"The wounded condition ends if someone successfully restores Hit Points to you with Treat Wounds, or if you are restored to full Hit Points and rest for 10 minutes."

Please forgive me if this is obviously stated somewhere and I simply can't find it.


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It seems pretty clear to me that the intention is to specifically not allow magical healing to cure the wounded condition.

My understanding is that the wounded condition should be inherently more difficult to remove than simple HP damage, which provides added incentive to keep yourself from going to zero HP in the first place.

To add to that idea, I don't think it's an accident that treat wounds takes 10 minutes, and being at full HP for 10 minutes is the other way to recover from the wounded condition. Both methods take 10 minutes, so there's no instantaneous way to do it.


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James585 wrote:

I know that anytime you lose the dying condition, you gain the wounded condition, but from what I can find in the rule book and on Archives of Nethys, the only way to remove the wounded condition is with treat wounds, or by being fully healed and resting for 10 minutes.

My Question is: Would magical healing a second time (after removing the dying condition) remove wounded?

I know that magical healing could eventually restore you to full health and you could rest, but it seems odd that mundane healing from Treat Wounds can do something that magical healing cannot easily do.

Here is a quote:

Quote:
"The wounded condition ends if someone successfully restores Hit Points to you with Treat Wounds, or if you are restored to full Hit Points and rest for 10 minutes."
Please forgive me if this is obviously stated somewhere and I simply can't find it.

No, magical healing does not remove the condition instantly. You can magically heal someone all the way and wait 10 monutes, but just casting an extra heal spell will not do the trick.


Thank you for the information, I think I understand the intent now.

However, I do think that it would have made more sense for the wounded condition to be removed by Treat Wounds, or by magical healing and a 10 minute rest, so that you do not need to fully heal a PC with magical healing to remove it.

After all, there is no grantee that Treat Wounds would fully heal you. It just seems to make more sense to me, but anyway, thanks for the clarification!


Jax77 wrote:

Thank you for the information, I think I understand the intent now.

However, I do think that it would have made more sense for the wounded condition to be removed by Treat Wounds, or by magical healing and a 10 minute rest, so that you do not need to fully heal a PC with magical healing to remove it.

After all, there is no grantee that Treat Wounds would fully heal you. It just seems to make more sense to me, but anyway, thanks for the clarification!

I think you can house rule it anyway you want, and as long as you don't allow anybody to heal the wounded condition while in combat, you aren't really breaking the game.


The idea with the Wounded condition is that you can magically heal a wound, but it won't heal right. You might stop the bleeding, but if your rib is broken you are still gonna have it poking at your organs.


Captain Morgan wrote:
The idea with the Wounded condition is that you can magically heal a wound, but it won't heal right. You might stop the bleeding, but if your rib is broken you are still gonna have it poking at your organs.

Hmm, I don't know, I always thought that magical healing would superior to traditional healing. It seemed that way to me in 1e and it just feels right.

However, I could see a lore explanation along the lines of "Magical Healing takes a lot out of the recipient" or "uses a little of their own life force or soul to heal them"

So the wound is somewhat or fully healed, but the process leaves them weak, so they retain the wounded condition until they are fully healed, and have time to rest and recovery from the ordeal.

Anyway, thanks for the info.


Jax77 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
The idea with the Wounded condition is that you can magically heal a wound, but it won't heal right. You might stop the bleeding, but if your rib is broken you are still gonna have it poking at your organs.

Hmm, I don't know, I always thought that magical healing would superior to traditional healing. It seemed that way to me in 1e and it just feels right.

However, I could see a lore explanation along the lines of "Magical Healing takes a lot out of the recipient" or "uses a little of their own life force or soul to heal them"

So the wound is somewhat or fully healed, but the process leaves them weak, so they retain the wounded condition until they are fully healed, and have time to rest and recovery from the ordeal.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

There are various examples in fiction of people with healing factors needing to reset their bones before they can heal right. Magical healing can restore more wounds faster, but it is essentially just speeding up the bodies natural healing processes.

It works for me, anyway.


Also, one final thought, perhaps this is an area for a feat in the future, such as "medicinal magic" for the healer, allowing your magic to heal the wounded condition after a magical heal and a 10 min rest.

OR Maybe a resiliency sort of feat that instead of the healer taking, the receiving player would take. Maybe good for front line fighters.


Jax77 wrote:
OR Maybe a resiliency sort of feat that instead of the healer taking, the receiving player would take. Maybe good for front line fighters.

Healing of wounds is highly unlikely to come without that 10 minute rest. It is to stop popcorn healing and make attrition scary.


The stabilize cantrip removes the dying condition, so cast it first and never gain the wounded condition in the first place.


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mussary wrote:
The stabilize cantrip removes the dying condition, so cast it first and never gain the wounded condition in the first place.

Any time you lose the dying condition, you gain the wounded 1 condition, or increase your wounded condition value by 1 if you already have that condition.


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Darkfox wrote:
To add to that idea, I don't think it's an accident that treat wounds takes 10 minutes, and being at full HP for 10 minutes is the other way to recover from the wounded condition. Both methods take 10 minutes, so there's no instantaneous way to do it.

Indeed. It is also notable that there is no way of directly speeding up Treat Wounds the way many other 10-minute activities can be sped up (e.g. Quick Repair, Quick Identification) - instead, you can remove the 1 hour "cooldown" with Continual Recovery and/or allow you to treat multiple patients at once with Ward Medic. That does not seem like a coincidence to me.


Staffan Johansson wrote:
Darkfox wrote:
To add to that idea, I don't think it's an accident that treat wounds takes 10 minutes, and being at full HP for 10 minutes is the other way to recover from the wounded condition. Both methods take 10 minutes, so there's no instantaneous way to do it.
Indeed. It is also notable that there is no way of directly speeding up Treat Wounds the way many other 10-minute activities can be sped up (e.g. Quick Repair, Quick Identification) - instead, you can remove the 1 hour "cooldown" with Continual Recovery and/or allow you to treat multiple patients at once with Ward Medic. That does not seem like a coincidence to me.

And given that treat wounds isn't guaranteed without decent investment and settling for a lower HP recovery amount and is single target without even more investment.

Having magical healing remove wounded after a 10 minutes would mean popping a 3 action heal would remove the wounded condition on the entire party after 10 minutes. Or instantly if you don't require 10 minutes (and then it would be back to popcorn healing).


I did not mean a feat that allows the removal without a ten minute rest, I meant a feat that allows magical healing to remove wounded WITHOUT having to heal to full, after a 10 minute rest.

Just feats that allow you NOT to have to heal the person to full and a ten minute rest, just magical healing, and a 10 minute rest. I never wanted to remove the 10 minute rest. I just think that having to heal to full with magic seems silly, when a treat wounds that DOES NOT heal to full removes wounded. Just add in a feat that that could allow any amount of magical healing and a 10 minute rest to remove wounded.

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Jax77 wrote:

I did not mean a feat that allows the removal without a ten minute rest, I meant a feat that allows magical healing to remove wounded WITHOUT having to heal to full, after a 10 minute rest.

Just feats that allow you NOT to have to heal the person to full and a ten minute rest, just magical healing, and a 10 minute rest. I never wanted to remove the 10 minute rest. I just think that having to heal to full with magic seems silly, when a treat wounds that DOES NOT heal to full removes wounded. Just add in a feat that that could allow any amount of magical healing and a 10 minute rest to remove wounded.

I think as long as you keep the 10m rest, that that could be doable. But it should probably be a substantial amount of healing, not a level 1 heal spell on a level 10 character for example.


Jax77 wrote:

I did not mean a feat that allows the removal without a ten minute rest, I meant a feat that allows magical healing to remove wounded WITHOUT having to heal to full, after a 10 minute rest.

Just feats that allow you NOT to have to heal the person to full and a ten minute rest, just magical healing, and a 10 minute rest. I never wanted to remove the 10 minute rest. I just think that having to heal to full with magic seems silly, when a treat wounds that DOES NOT heal to full removes wounded. Just add in a feat that that could allow any amount of magical healing and a 10 minute rest to remove wounded.

Well yeah but that is why I said

"Having magical healing remove wounded after a 10 minutes would mean popping a 3 action heal would remove the wounded condition on the entire party after 10 minutes. Or instantly if you don't require 10 minutes (and then it would be back to popcorn healing)."

It still has a very strong mechanical impact. If I were to include it I would make it an extra benefit of wardmedic that unlocks with master medicine.

Otherwise it is a direct power creep.


Does it seem out of alignment with the rule that Battle Medicine should be allowed to remove the Wounded condition even within the midst of battle?

Use of this feat in our group has made the Wounded condition largely irrelevant.


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Captain Punka wrote:

Does it seem out of alignment with the rule that Battle Medicine should be allowed to remove the Wounded condition even within the midst of battle?

Use of this feat in our group has made the Wounded condition largely irrelevant.

I mean is there another feat or rule that allows that because battle medicine on its own won't remove the wounded condition.


Talonhawke wrote:
I mean is there another feat or rule that allows that because battle medicine on its own won't remove the wounded condition.

This, battle medicine heals and nothing else. It is not a treat wounds check.


Ahh, I see. It uses the same DC's, etc. but isn't technically a Treat Wounds. Thanks!


Captain Punka wrote:
Ahh, I see. It uses the same DC's, etc. but isn't technically a Treat Wounds. Thanks!

Correct. Which is why there is a large constituent of people who use that same logic to show that Battle Medic does not require 2 hands or a Healer's Kit.

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