Please assist me in my Monk build


Advice


Could I get some feedback from the good folks of the Paizo forums on this Monk build I've been playing around with. The idea isn't to hit and run but to stand on the front lines along side the Fighter and deal respectable damage. I know Charisma is generally a dump stat for the Monk but since nobody else in the group has Intimidate I feel demoralize is worth the investment? I wish I could jack up the Charisma to 14 but don't think it's possible with Human. There were many good feats I had to pass up and unfortunately I wasn't able to grab any Ki powers till late as I'm so starved for Class feats. Skill feats I feel are a problem spot, I think there's room to improve them would love to hear input. The campaign would go to 20 but I just went to 14 here just to give you all an idea of what I'm building towards. If I could be more focused in this build please advise me on how. Without further ado I present to you Haggar the Human Monk:

Str 18 (+2)
Dex 16 (+2)
Con 12 (+2)
Wis 10
Int 10
Cha 12 (+2)

Level 1:
Background: Dragon Scholar
Ancestry Feat: Natural Ambition (Crane Stance)
Heritage: Versatile Heritage (Toughness)

Level 2:
Class feat: Dragon Stance
Skill feat: Cat Fall

Level 3:
General feat: Incredible Initiative
Skill Increase: Intimidate (expert)

Level 4:
Class feat: Stunning Fist
Skill feat: Intimidating Prowess

Level 5:
Ability Boosts: Str, Con, Dex, Cha
Ancestry Feat - Clever Improviser
Skill increase - Athletics (expert)

Level 6:
Class feat: Crane Flutter
Skill feat: Athletics (assurance)

Level 7:
General feat: Fleet
Skill increase: Intimidate (master)

Level 8:
Class feat: Dragon Roar
Skill feat: Titan Wrestler

Level 9:
Ancestry Feat: Multitalented (any good MC options?)
Skill increase: Athletics (master)

Level 10:
Class feat: Stand Still
Skill feat: Quick Jump
Ability Boosts: Str, Con, Dex, Cha

Level 11:
General feat: Adopted Ancestry
Skill increase: Acrobatics (expert)

Level 12:
Class feat: Stance Savant
Skill feat: ?

Level 13:

Ancestry Feat: Halfling Luck
Skill increase: Acrobatics (master)

Level 14:
Class feat: Finally room for Ki Strike?
Skill feat: Kip Up

Thank you all for your time and have a very Merry Christmas!

Silver Crusade

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You are missing a Monk feat at level 1, so you could take a ki feat there.


Hmm this post has not garnered the response I had hoped on this Christmas day. Could I please get some help with the following please, the Eternal Noob seeks guidance.

1) Could anyone suggest whether 12 Cha is too low to Demoralize?

2) For Multitalented are there any good options or is it better to take a different ancestry feat?

3) Are there any skill feats you would recommend?


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If you're looking to stand in the front lines and deal damage, I suggest you drop your Dex to 10 and go the Mountain Stance route (and not take Crane Stance). You can then put those points into CHA (or split them between CHA and Con because a 12 for Con for a frontliner is dangerous, even if you have Toughness). You can then take Flurry of Maneuvers at lvl 4. Take Mountain Stronghold at lvl 6 (if you make Dex go from 10 to 12 at lvl 5, you're can now take advantage of that +1 Dex modifier).

Btw as Sober Caydenite notes, you're missing your lvl 1 Monk feat. You can take Ki Strike there. At lvl 2, I suggest you forego Dragon Stance and instead take Crushing Grab or Stunning Fist (I'm actually partial to Stunning Fist myself).

Hope this helps


Yes I have an alternate Mountain stance build which is exactly as you described believe it or not, I took stunning fist, and then FoM at 4. However that build doesn't is more of a control build is it not and less damage? Because with dragon your doing very good damage and most rounds your also using Crane for the reaction to get even more damage. Mountain doesn't really come close in that regard. So your suggesting a controller over a damager? Keep in mind we have a fighter already who is tanky.


Atalius wrote:
Yes I have an alternate Mountain stance build which is exactly as you described believe it or not, I took stunning fist, and then FoM at 4. However that build doesn't is more of a control build is it not and less damage? Because with dragon your doing very good damage and most rounds your also using Crane for the reaction to get even more damage. Mountain doesn't really come close in that regard. So your suggesting a controller over a damager?

For a long while in a Monk's career, you can't be in two stances at once so having Crane when you are primarily looking to be in Dragon doesn't help you (it takes an action to enter a stance).

If you want to stick with Dragon, then don't drop Dex to 10 but perhaps to 12 and then carry a shield in your hand and then take the raise a shield action after you flurry (1 action) and strike (1 action) or move (1 action) and flurry (1 action) for the +2 to AC.

[edit] You can even flavor-text your shield as a dragon's scale too


1st action: Enter dragon stance
2nd action: FoB
3rd action: Enter Crane stance
Reaction: Enemy hits me as I'm frontlining, I hit enemy with a Crane Wing strike.


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Atalius wrote:

1st action: Enter dragon stance

2nd action: FoB
3rd action: Enter Crane stance
Reaction: Enemy hits me as I'm frontlining, I hit enemy with a Crane Wing strike.

That's totally doable if you're looking for max damage and a monk's "attack of opportunity". I was suggesting the control route via grab/trip and also better optimizing your demoralize (which I may have mistakenly thought was a goal of yours) as it offers various options for you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Atalius wrote:

1st action: Enter dragon stance

2nd action: FoB
3rd action: Enter Crane stance
Reaction: Enemy hits me as I'm frontlining, I hit enemy with a Crane Wing strike.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s legal:

“After you use an action with the stance trait, you can’t use another one for 1 round.”


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Porridge wrote:
Atalius wrote:

1st action: Enter dragon stance

2nd action: FoB
3rd action: Enter Crane stance
Reaction: Enemy hits me as I'm frontlining, I hit enemy with a Crane Wing strike.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s legal:

“After you use an action with the stance trait, you can’t use another one for 1 round.”

Thanks for the reminder Porridge. I knew there was a reason I had originally thought something about crane and dragon was off but wasn't sure if it was a rule or just personal taste.


If it can't be done that's pretty brutal.


Indeed the way of the Mountain stance may very well be better then. Would there be any way to get Raging Bully or is it just not worth it? I don't see how I could get a circumstance bonus to athletics just by being a Monk.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Atalius wrote:
Indeed the way of the Mountain stance may very well be better then. Would there be any way to get Raging Bully or is it just not worth it? I don't see how I could get a circumstance bonus to athletics just by being a Monk.

You could get it by taking Barb dedication at lvl 9, basic fury for furious finish at 10 and then advanced fury at 16 to get furious bully. But you can't get it before 16 with a dedication.

But you don't have to go mountain stance, going dragon with 18str/16dex would work fine, could easily drop crane stance for ki feats if you wanted


Vlorax wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Indeed the way of the Mountain stance may very well be better then. Would there be any way to get Raging Bully or is it just not worth it? I don't see how I could get a circumstance bonus to athletics just by being a Monk.

You could get it by taking Barb dedication at lvl 9, basic fury for furious finish at 10 and then advanced fury at 16 to get furious bully. But you can't get it before 16 with a dedication.

But you don't have to go mountain stance, going dragon with 18str/16dex would work fine, could easily drop crane stance for ki feats if you wanted

What if I changed my approach and went the controller route, so your saying take Multitalented at 9 for Barb dedication, then at 10 probably not Furious Finish but a different feat perhaps Raging Intimidation so I could Demoralize enemies while Raging, which do you recommend (since going controller)? Then at 16 snatch Furious Bully. Hmm so 1 ancestry and 2 class feats.

Question: could I use Lizardfolk Threatening Approach while Raging if I had Raging Intimidation?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Atalius wrote:
Vlorax wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Indeed the way of the Mountain stance may very well be better then. Would there be any way to get Raging Bully or is it just not worth it? I don't see how I could get a circumstance bonus to athletics just by being a Monk.

You could get it by taking Barb dedication at lvl 9, basic fury for furious finish at 10 and then advanced fury at 16 to get furious bully. But you can't get it before 16 with a dedication.

But you don't have to go mountain stance, going dragon with 18str/16dex would work fine, could easily drop crane stance for ki feats if you wanted

What if I changed my approach and went the controller route, so your saying take Multitalented at 9 for Barb dedication, then at 10 probably not Furious Finish but a different feat perhaps Raging Intimidation so I could Demoralize enemies while Raging, which do you recommend (since going controller)? Then at 16 snatch Furious Bully. Hmm so 1 ancestry and 2 class feats.

Question: could I use Lizardfolk Threatening Approach while Raging if I had Raging Intimidation?

If going the intimidation route then yes raging intimidation would be a good pick.

Yes you could use it while raging if you had raging intimidation since it has you making a standard demoralize roll after the stride


Hmmm very interesting, because looking at the other level 16 (Monk) feats most of them tend to favor FoB Monks there is of course MoMS but going pure Mountain stance I don't see a need for MoMS? Enlightened Presence looks pretty good but I think the controller build would be more focused with Furious Bully. If I didn't go Furious Bully is there any way for a Monk to gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Athletics?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Atalius wrote:
Hmmm very interesting, because looking at the other level 16 (Monk) feats most of them tend to favor FoB Monks there is of course MoMS but going pure Mountain stance I don't see a need for MoMS? Enlightened Presence looks pretty good but I think the controller build would be more focused with Furious Bully. If I didn't go Furious Bully is there any way for a Monk to gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Athletics?

Afaik Furious Bully is the only circumstance bonus to Athletics you can get. The Cleric/wizard focus spells both give status bonuses so I think Furious Bully is it if you really want that bonus


Wow then indeed it is much coveted. I certainly may need to get that if I want to be the ultimate controller.


Do you know of any ways I can get status bonus to Athletics without a caster around.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Atalius wrote:
Do you know of any ways I can get status bonus to Athletics without a caster around.

Only thing I see is the Bronze Bull Pendant, but that only gives status bonus to shove. I could see similar talismans for the other actions being a thing as well but nothing in the crb


It would be best to get shield block at level 1 with your human feat and then take last wall sentinel at level 2 for quick shield block. That's a huge boost to defense with no offensive cost.


Atalius,

I liked your initial idea of a damage- and demoralize-focused monk and thought what that might look like. And here's what I've come up with:

I've imagined a monk who obsessively studies the might, ferocity, and fearsome mien of dragons in the pursuit of creating a new fighting style so that's why I chose Scholar and Extra Lore - Dragons as a starting point (the Extra Lore feat automatically improves to expert/master/legendary as you level up).

Mechanically, I've taken a number of Barbarian dedication feats to up DPR (Draconic Rage, Attack of Opportunity, Thrash). There are some control aspects as well via Demoralize and Combat Maneuvers. Ki Strike and Stunning Fist provide some nice and thematic options.

I sacrificed some damage output (starting with Str 16 and ending with Str 20) in order to boost other useful abilities.

Beginning AC is middling (not bad if you raise shield) but improves nicely over the levels.

Versatile Human
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 14

Level 1:
Background: Scholar - Assurance (Athletics), Lore: Academics
Ancestry Feat: Natural Ambition (Dragon Stance)
Heritage: Versatile Heritage (Extra Lore: Dragons) for RP reason
Class Feat: Ki Strike (will train out of this at level 9 when we get it for "free" via Student of Perfection)
AC = 16; Shield = 18

Level 2:
Class feat: Stunning Fist
Skill feat: Intimidating Glare (will train out of this at level 8 because we’ll get it for “free” via Raging Intimidation)

Level 3:
General feat: Toughness
Skill Increase: Athletics (expert)

Level 4:
Class feat: Flurry of Maneuvers
Skill feat: Titan Wrestler

Level 5:
Ability Boosts: Str, Dex, Con, Cha
Ancestry Feat – Haughty Obstinacy
Skill increase - Intimidation (expert)
AC = 21; Shield = 23

Level 6:
Class feat: Barbarian Dedication
Skill feat: Intimidating Prowess

Level 7:
General feat: Incredible Initiative
Skill increase: Athletic (master)
1st Path of Perfection – Will (master)

Level 8:
Retrain Intimidating Glare (Lvl 2) for Quick Jump
Class feat: Basic Fury - Raging Intimidation (gives us Intimidating Glare so we don’t lose it via retraining))
Skill feat: Wall Jump

Level 9:
Retrain Ki Strike (Lvl 1) for Ki Rush
Ancestry Feat: Multitalented - Student of Perfection (gives us Ki Strike and Acrobatics (expert))
Skill increase: Intimidation (master)

Level 10:
Ability Boosts: Str, Dex, Con, Cha
Class feat: Instinct Ability (Draconic Rage)
Skill feat: Battle Cry
AC = 27, Shield = 29

Level 11:
General feat: Fast Recovery
Skill increase: Acrobatics (Master)
2nd Path to Perfection – Fortitude (master)

Level 12:
Class feat: Dragon Roar
Skill feat: Terrified Retreat

Level 13:
Ancestry Feat: General Training (Catfall)
Skill increase: Diplomacy (expert)
Unarmored Defense (master)
AC = 32, Shield = 34

Level 14:
Class feat: Advanced Fury (Dragon’s Rage Breath)
Skill feat: Quick Climber

Level 15:
Ability Boosts: Str, Dex, Con, Cha
General feat: Cloud Jump
Skill Increase: Athletics (legendary)
3rd Path to Perfection – Will (legendary)
AC = 35; Shield = 37

Level 16:
Class feat: Advanced Fury (Attack of Opportunity)
Skill feat: Quick Swim

Level 17:
Ancestry Feat: General Training (Uncanny Accumen – Reflex (master))
Skill Increase: Intimidation (legendary; get Scare to Death automatically via Raging Intimidation selected at lvl 8)
Unarmored Defense (legendary)
AC = 39, Shield = 41

Level 18:
Class Feat: Advance Fury (Thrash)
Skill Feat: Quick Coercion

Level 19:
General Skill: Fleet? Kip Up?
Skill Increase: Acrobatics (legendary)

Level 20:
Ability Boosts: Con, Int, Wis, Cha
Class Feat: Impossible Technique
Skill Feat: Group Coercion
AC = 42, Shield = 44

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