Tail Terror. Best class options...

[Chell Raighn]

To help bring this discussion back on track, I've made a thread in the Rules Questions for furthar discussion of the rules function of the Kobold Tail Attachments (and similar weapons)

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42w5v?Kobold-Tail-Attachments-Catfolk-Claw-Bla des

[Dwarftr]

I have discussed this with my DM and group, and we have decided that (as a group) the tail attachments will be considered weapon attacks. That being said, i think i want to go with some sort of healer type character.....

So i would be wielding a shield in the off hand, and prob wands and the like in the other. That would make the tail attachments my main weapon. So which class would a kobold make a better healer? specifically in combat? Out of combat as a group we are good, but we lack defined/dedicated in combat healing.

Right now i'm looking at warpriest, cleric and oracle...
Opinions? And pls i'm staying a kobold......

Thxs for the help so far as well to those who have offered suggestions..

As a reminder,
*Lvl 10
*Paizo only
*20 point buy

[avr]

The oracle's probably the best in-combat healer if built for it (Pei Zin practitioner and/or life mystery), then the cleric, the warpriest can self-heal but isn't notably good at healing others. Their channeling cuts directly into the resource they use for in-combat buffing.

Assuming that you get a tail attachment with the agile enchantment you'll have some damage in combat. A long lash tail attachment and combat reflexes, and presumably piranha strike get you further but not all the way to competent; you'll need at least one buff spell, preferably two. Blessing of fervor is likely your first because it affects the party, if you have time or if you're a warpriest divine favor follows it. Remember to pre-cast magic vestment and probably greater magic weapon too.

[Wonderstell]

@Dwarftr

How about a Celestial Totem Skald using Path of Glory to heal your allies for 11 HP each round as a swift action?
You'd probably have to take one of the archetypes that makes your Inspired Rage not mess up concentration, as they'd need the Rage Powers you give out to benefit from the increased healing. But if you spend three feats to get a mount through the Sylvan bloodline you'd be pretty proficient in combat too.

====

@Meirril

Please explain how a cestus works differently without pulling a muscle doing mental acrobatics. Preferably in the thread Chell Raighn created.

Em-Bah-Rah-Sing:

Meirril wrote:

At no point does any of this text say anything about converting the tail into a normal attack, or a normal limb. Or that the tail attachment should be treated as a normal attack, or that it isn't a natural attack, or that you can even make an attack with a tail attachment. None of that language exists in this description.

Point to where in the description that the Tail Attachment is called out as being a natural attack. I have proven that they are in fact "Light Melee Weapons" but you have failed to provide any proof stating that they are natural attacks. Could they be both? That's up to you to prove.

Tell me, what does "Augment" mean here?
It's not a defined (pathfinder) term so we're forced to draw our own conclusions. Now you have definitely interpreted it as "it is still a natural attack", but I believe it means "changing it to a manufactured weapon". So that's apparently word against word then. Which I mean to say that a subjective reading of the rules isn't proof. You know what is? The clear absence of anything denoting the Tail Attachments as natural attacks, and the evidence that explicitly states that they are weapons.

***

[Dwarftr]

@Wonderstell

Can you show me how you get that number for the healing? I looked at the Celestial totem and Path of Glory and i can't get the numbers to add up.... What other rage powers do i need going to get this 11hp per round?

Thxs

[Wonderstell]

My bad, I forgot to add the "lesser" before Celestial Totem.

Lesser Celestial Totem:

While raging, the barbarian benefits from increased magical healing.

Whenever she is subject to a spell that cures hit point damage, she heals 1 additional point of damage per caster level. In the case of non-spell healing effects (such as channeled energy or lay on hands), she heals a number of additional points equal to the class level of the character performing the magical healing. This does not affect fast healing or regeneration.

So 1 HP from Path of Glory, and +10 from your caster level.

[Chell Raighn]

Wonderstell wrote:

My bad, I forgot to add the "lesser" before Celestial Totem.

** spoiler omitted **

So 1 HP from Path of Glory, and +10 from your caster level.

If you are looking at it from 10th level perspective, then you can actually get 15hp per round with Greater Path of Glory. At 10th the skald gets 4th level spells, and Greater Path of Glory is a 4th level spell for them. So that combination then becomes +5 from GPoG and +10 from CL.

[Meirril]

Wonderstell wrote:

Meirril wrote:

At no point does any of this text say anything about converting the tail into a normal attack, or a normal limb. Or that the tail attachment should be treated as a normal attack, or that it isn't a natural attack, or that you can even make an attack with a tail attachment. None of that language exists in this description.
Point to where in the description that the Tail Attachment is called out as being a natural attack. I have proven that they are in fact "Light Melee Weapons" but you have failed to provide any proof stating that they are natural attacks. Could they be both? That's up to you to prove.

Tell me, what does "Augment" mean here?
It's not a defined (pathfinder) term so we're forced to draw our own conclusions. Now you have definitely interpreted it as "it is still a natural attack", but I believe it means "changing it to a manufactured weapon". So that's apparently word against word then. Which I mean to say that a subjective reading of the rules isn't proof. You know what is? The clear absence of anything denoting the Tail Attachments as natural attacks, and the evidence that explicitly states that they are weapons.

Yes, that should be absolutely embarrassing to say. The amount of willful ignorance it takes to keep making empty assertions is truly embarrassing.

If Wonderstell can be bothered to look 1 sentence before the part he quoted he finds the part that answers his assertion.

Meirril wrote:

And in context it literally says the tail slap does the Attachment's damage, and infers that the tail slap gains the attributes and modifiers of the attachment including weapon feats.

And lets take a fresh look at the relevant text. except this time from Archives of Nethys. The first sentence answers the crux of the argument.

Kobold Tail Attachment wrote:

A kobold with the Tail Terror feat (see below) can slip this device over the tip of his tail to augment his natural attack.

The first paragraph is an overview. It says the natural attack is augmented. The second paragraph goes on to explain how the augment modifies the previous paragraph. It also describes how to treat the attachment itself.

Now how you turn "the natural attack is augmented" into "oh by the way, it stops being a natural attack" is only through focusing on the item and reverse engineering the text. Is it really strange that trying to reverse the order of the words and taking words out of context and trying to apply general rules makes things confusing? Yes, anyone that does that should be confused, because they are doing it wrong.