Will the GM guide have 0 level options or NPC classes


Rules Discussion


Hi just wondering.

Will the GM guide have zero level base characters or will they have NPC classes that are weaker to flesh out the normal NPCs such as the tailor, blacksmith, farmer peasant, nobleman, etc. that are not Player character level?

For instance the town guard would be a warrior with light and medium armor and simple weapons and maybe one or two advanced such as say a Halberd. He is not a trained fighter in all weapons but has some level of combat training etc.

Likewise there could be an apothecary class which is similar to an alchemist but only certain basic things like making sunrods or anti plague poulstices and maybe some contrips and spells but limited to utility or very base healing. MAybe even knows spells that are a lesser version of the ones PC's get etc.

Right now if I want to make a base human guard I just make a first level fighter etc.. This is fine but not necessarily the best method to go with this.


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You might find the information in the product discussion thread useful.
Gamemastery Guide

There are no longer separate NPC classes.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah the main takeaway is that without npc classes you can make a legendary blacksmith that is t capable of breaking out from the goblin Warren's himself.


Yeah, NPCs are generally not built like PCs anymore, but like monsters. There's a preview of the rules here.

Another GMG preview showed some doctor-type NPCs, and some of them had language along the lines of "This is normally a level 1 creature, but if you use it in a situation where its medical skill is the relevant part, treat it as a level 3 challenge." This implies that NPCs will often have a disconnect between their combat potency and their actual competence.


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Staffan Johansson wrote:
Another GMG preview showed some doctor-type NPCs, and some of them had language along the lines of "This is normally a level 1 creature, but if you use it in a situation where its medical skill is the relevant part, treat it as a level 3 challenge." This implies that NPCs will often have a disconnect between their combat potency and their actual competence.

I have been contemplating rules for creating NPCs, and a disconnect between professional competence and combat challenge appears to be a good method for constructing believable townsfolk. The opera singer who sings like a 7th-level bard with Master proficiency does not need to cast 4th-level occult spells. The shopkeeper who sells 3rd-level moderate alchemist's fire ought to have a way of brewing them himself without being a 3rd-level character. The runesmith who forges a +1 striking dagger does not necessarily have to be as good at wielding it as a 4th-level party member.

A town that can support a party of heroes should still have a reason to call those heroes rather than handling the challenges themselves.


Mathmuse wrote:
A town that can support a party of heroes should still have a reason to call those heroes rather than handling the challenges themselves.

100% agree. An NPC in a game world should be able to be great at something without it making them awesome in combat.

A lot of times, you don't even necessarily need combat stats for an NPC. Just figure out what their Deception & Perception are. Or their Craft or Perform.
That diva that brought crowds from all over Westcrown to a packed house? She can captivate a crowded theater, but probably can't fight her way out of a paper bag.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

But it is an explicit yes on level 0 rules, if I'm not mistaken.


The-Magic-Sword wrote:
But it is an explicit yes on level 0 rules, if I'm not mistaken.

Kinda, we already have the NPC creation rules. While they will change a bit and have some extra options they won't change dramatically. Not like having extra classes just for NPCs or specifically for level 0 characters.

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