Build help: Arcane Trickster skill monkey


Advice


I'm new to Pathfinder2e and have spent quite a few hours browsing through options and learning the rules.
But I need help to build my first character - so many options, can't find a place to start!
It would be great if you guys could help me to create a viable concept.

I want to create a very versatile character, someone who always has a trick up his sleeve.

Must-have:
- Should be a caster (preferably full caster, but at least as archetype up to level 8 spells)
- Should be viable as a party face (at least somewhat)
- should have the most important skills to theoretically be able to adventure on his own (stealth, thievery, survival, medicine...)

What I like:
- elf, half-elf or human characters
- crowd control and blasting
- DEX+CHA based builds
- pulling off tricks, plotting, scheming
- chaotic good alignment
- at least some healing capability
- theoretically being able to "solo" easy adventures
- spontaneous casting

What I dislike:
- being reduced to a buffer/support role
- being just a skill monkey without any combat viability
- vancian/prepared casting

What I don't mind:
- if I use weapons or not (just need some way to contribute damage)

In the video game version of Pathfinder: Kingmaker (1e), I played an elven arcane trickster (rogue 1/wizard 3/ AT 10) with CHA as tertiary stat (would have preferred a sorc-based AT, but they are are a lot weaker).

I D&D 5e, my favourite build is lore bard 18 / warlock 2 (for Eldritch Blast)


So the caster part is easy - you go either sorcerer or pick up its multiclass

with some healing ability I would advise taking a primal bloodline
they should also have at least a few cc options but that is more the schtick of occult iirc
the fey bloodline also grants a invisibility focus spell and illusionary potential, which is also fitting with the chaotic good part

if the 'having all important skills part' is important to you get rogue, they gain the most 1st level skills and one on each level instead of one every odd level - also with the right feat you can sneak attack with spells

you just have to look if blasting capability or the skill part is more important

bard would be a nice middle-thing, they got good spells and are very versatile and have some healing capability, but the blasting is admittedly worse, which again could be increased with a mc archetype

viable party face is valid for every option since everyone (at least can) run on charisma (even rogue) and everyone gets some mileage from dex

race is not all that relevant for what you want to accomlish, although the elf can grant easier access to multiclassing and maybe an extra cantrip or two

your alignment and the plotting/sheming part is completely up to you

Cant speak for the kingmaker video game, many considered it...well, not optimal

and dnd 5 builds are (probably) mostly irrelevant here as far as i can tell


In pathfinder 2e, there's no good way of setting up the sniping with spells style arcane trickster due to the fact that any spellcasting actions break sneaking. This might change in the future.

Since you want a blasting spontaneous caster with some healing, I'm gonna second fey bloodline sorcerer. Being a cha caster lets you be a party face, and the primal list has both heals and battlefield control alongside one of, of not the best choice of blasts. Fey disappearance and fey glamour work well for a trickster theme, and even faerie dust can soften up will and perception DCs, though this power overall is kinda eh. The blood magic ability is pretty decent, even if you cant use it to hide. Your class doesn't give you a terribly high amount of skills, but you can still make it work as long as you don't dump int. Rogue multiclass also really bolsters your skills.

Ancestry wise, your favored picks actually combo really well. The elf's stats can be set up as +dex, cha, int to give you some more skills, or the half elf/human works just as +dex and cha. Elf does have an option for a primal innate cantrip that is basically acid splash of whatever element you want, the human's adapted cantrip and adapted spell feats are a good way of getting a couple extra spells onto your list that you wouldn't normally have access to.

For damage, you're best off using your cantrips and blasts, but you can make a finesse weapon work respectably if you invest the gold. Your best cantrips for raw damage are electric arc (if you have 2 targets) or telekinetic projectile (for single target). I wouldn't focus on using a weapon unless you have access to true strike, though. Fortunately, adapted spell lets you put that onto the primal list. A lot of people will tell you that using a weapon on a caster is unviable, but in the game I run, the dragon blooded sorcerer does just fine using her claws as a filler attack after using a two action spell; as long as you're not expecting the same level of skill in arms as a martial, you'll be fine as long as you're smart about using flanking and the like.


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I just put together a half elf Enigma Bard with 10Str/12Dex/10Con/16Int/12Wis/18Cha I took Dragon Scholar background for intimidating glair. I took Elvin afitism for Caverin elves Darkvision.

He is super the face with all the social skills and great utility as Enigma with all the lores through Bardric lore and that 16 int makes them stick.
Skills inc: Arcana, Crafting, Deception, Deplomacy, Intimidation, Dragon Lore, Medicine, Occultism, Performance, Society and Stealth
Languages Common Elvin Goblin Draconic

He is not great at doing much with phys weapons (+4 with finesse Whip or his short bow) but spellcasting and buffs make up for that.

Soothe Magic missle and true strike for his 1st lvl spells cover the most needed options and cantrips include TK projectile Guidence forbidding ward mage hand and shield.

As he lvls He will just get better esp as his Dex Con and Wis are boosted with att boosts along with mandatory Cha at 5th and 10th.


Thank you all for the great suggestions!
I guess my first char will be a bard.

A question remains: If I want a bard that can do decent at-will damage - is it better to use weapons or cantrips?


Tomice wrote:

Thank you all for the great suggestions!

I guess my first char will be a bard.

A question remains: If I want a bard that can do decent at-will damage - is it better to use weapons or cantrips?

Weapons are almost always going to do better damage than cantrips, though it will ultimately come down to your stat array. If your str/dex is lower than a 16 at level 1, cantrips will usually be better.


Cantrips scale quite well, but need always 2 actions to cast
Also not that the bard itself has one offensive cantrip that attacks with dex instead of casting attribute like, well, every other cantrip

but bard can do pretty well with weapons too, no matter if you pick melee or ranged - as salamileg said, it come down to your stats

if you want to improve your weapon damage capabilities consider going mc rogue or fighter (I would not advise ranger since you need an action for hunt and for your inspire courage (if you want to use it) which clogs up your overall action capabilities)

if you want to improve your blasting capabilities you most likely want to go arcane or primal sorcere with mc (same casting attribute and also spontaneous caster)


Salamileg wrote:
Tomice wrote:

Thank you all for the great suggestions!

I guess my first char will be a bard.

A question remains: If I want a bard that can do decent at-will damage - is it better to use weapons or cantrips?

Weapons are almost always going to do better damage than cantrips, though it will ultimately come down to your stat array. If your str/dex is lower than a 16 at level 1, cantrips will usually be better.

I'm curious.

Do weapons rely upgrades to out perform cantrips?
Or is the single action Strike enough to let weapons outperform on damage?

I ask because both weapons and cantrips get a boost from stats, but cantrips automatically heighten as well.


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Of course weapon needs upgrade
through heightening many cantrips reach around 10 dice dmg with 2 actions

you can't expect an unupgraded 1dX weapon to keep up with that
one could argue that the 4dx of a fully upgraded weapon is still worse then a fully scaled cantrip

but there are more factors to include to that then only the average damage

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