Is Hero Lab Online going to ruin PF2 for my group?


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HLO isn't finished yet they are now charging the ongoing fee if today's email is to be believed. Despite them saying they wouldn't until it was feature complete.

-laughs-

Silver Crusade

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

HLO isn't finished yet they are now charging the ongoing fee if today's email is to be believed. Despite them saying they wouldn't until it was feature complete.

-laughs-

Out of vague curiousity, what fee are they charging?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
pauljathome wrote:
Out of vague curiousity, what fee are they charging?

The annual fee is $25.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

while i like hro online well enough there is also pathbuilder which works quite well
and you can run it on an emulator if you don't have an android


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Coming form a 5e group who were heavily using DnD Beyond, it has been a very rude awakening. Possibly a fatal one as my group want to go back just because of the tooling. The big killer is cost. Yes, I know they are talking about group licensing, but they have been doing so forever, and judging by recent posts, they haven't even figured out how they want to do this yet. But as things stand, the expectation is pretty much that every player at the table buys every book that will be used. Including adventure modules. My group's reaction has been along the lines of "is this some kind of Joke?". Perhaps they have been spoiled, but fact is, that is that the competition have been offering excellent content sharing for years.

I would also note that in dnd beyond, when you buy a book or adventure, you get the full hyperlinked text of that adventure or book as well. You don't need to buy it as a physical copy at all if you don't want to.

So long and short of it, HLO is in inferior, far more expensive version of D&D beyond, and is absolutely without a doubt, if not actually hurting sales of PF2, definitely not promoting them in the same DnD Beyond does for 5e.

I have seen people here argue but poor Lone Wolf is only 6 people compared to Curse's hundreds. We can't expect the same quality of product from them even if we are paying much more. Well, to be perfectly honest, and in the nicest possible way, that is utterly irrelevant to me as a customer. I have zero, nil, nadda interest in their size, their organisation or their level of profit. I wish them well of course, but it pretty much ends there. I am not buying an inferior product, at a higher cost, because they are small. (And after the realmworks debacle, and how they let down their customers, I really would really raise a doubting eyebrow at how great they are anyway). Bottom line, if they are too small to develop and support this product properly, I strongly advise Paizo to find someone who can, because they are hurting Pathfinder2. This is

I know I'm coming across very harsh here and I do wish Lone Wolf well, but as Abadar teaches us, that is the reality of being a business.


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I have been using Hero Labs for quite a while and honestly, I have had zero issues with it. I used to run PF1e using Hero Labs Classic and when I saw they were switching to a subscription model I had very similar thoughts to everyone here. After buying the subscription for PF2e and actually using Hero Labs Online, I have found it to be very intuitive and mostly error free. Any bugs I have found I reported and they were fixed within the week.

None of my other players have HLO, nor would I require them to. I simply ask them to use Archives of Nehtys to put together there character and I enter it into HLO as a check to make sure we didn't miss anything in character creation. I also use it as a quick rules check when we need to question something in the game. I do this for both offline and online games that I GM as well as characters play with.

Lone Wolf has also started incorporating a Campaign feature into the service for running encounters which will eventually include the ability for users without a Hero Lab license to use the GMs content to create there character.

As a developer myself, I know that these things take time. Soon enough Hero Labs will have the features you are looking for and they will either lure you back or you'll have found a suitable replacement like Pathbuilder. I have a player right now using Pathbuilder to make his character for our Extinction Curse game starting next week.

For those comparing HLO to DnD Beyond, I'll say that while it is a different model, I feel like I have personally paid much more than a subscriptions worth to get what I want from DnD Beyond, essentially boiling down to them getting my money to maintain there servers and make a profit. It's just a different business model that is going to accomplish the same thing and I honestly prefer how HLO presents my characters than DnD Beyond.

All of this is just my opinion but give HLO a try or find a replacement like Pathbuilder. Some company will fill that want for you.


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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
GougedEye wrote:
So long and short of it, HLO is in inferior, far more expensive version of D&D beyond, and is absolutely without a doubt, if not actually hurting sales of PF2, definitely not promoting them in the same DnD Beyond does for 5e.

Interestingly, D&D Beyond as an exclusive digital tool for the books is one of the things that killed my interest in 5e before I could even get started. Paizo has absolutely spoiled me with the subscription's physical+PDF bundle, and making the core PDFs so cheap (+ OGL source) means my players all have good options. In the long run I'll switch to 100% PDF again for PF2, because I don't want to cart around all these books.

Having 5e digital books locked behind a proprietary platform was basically a no-go so I never even looked at the tool's other capabilities.

I'd much rather pay for character creation separately than have the books integrated into a proprietary platform (although there's no reason WotC *had* to do it that way).

As for Hero Lab Online, my initial subscription is about to expire any day now. I logged in to check out the combat manager or whatever they're calling it and found it fairly unintuitive and cumbersome (although I didn't spend a bunch of time on it). I'm literally a technical consultant who regularly learns new systems just to advise clients on how to use them effectively, so that's a pretty strong level of unintuitive.

I'll keep an eye on it. The long-term vision sounds fine, but the group licensing is also key for me. I'll buy the content, even with a subscription, but there's no way I can ask my players to do the same. In the meantime, I'll keep using fillable PDFs, Pathbuilder 2 (though I keep finding small bugs here and there too), and Maptool (for actually tracking combat initative/health/conditions, where I used Hero Lab Classic in the past for PF1).

I hope Lone Wolf figures it all out. They've taken on a hard challenge, and probably bet the company on it. I'm rooting for them, but it's not at a point where they have more of my money.


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Yeah, 5e's lack of proper digital distribution has been a pretty big buzzkill for me too. Beyond seems like a nice platform but I'm not sure why they don't just let me buy a PDF.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

That's what killed our group. GM disavowed the system when it was announced there wouldn't be official PDFs.


Squiggit wrote:
Yeah, 5e's lack of proper digital distribution has been a pretty big buzzkill for me too. Beyond seems like a nice platform but I'm not sure why they don't just let me buy a PDF.

I assume they're trying to limit piracy. It killed my interest in the whole system... but I guess I didn't pirate anything at least.


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Garretmander wrote:
I assume they're trying to limit piracy.

This is not a statement condoning or admitting to any illegal activity but...

This has not worked out for them if that's their goal.


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Squiggit wrote:
This has not worked out for them if that's their goal.

Not in the least... Even a little.

Garretmander wrote:
but I guess I didn't pirate anything at least.

Yeah, you got to love it when a plan comes together...

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hero Lab is dead, as far as PF2 is concerned. Pathbuilder is better than it in almost every way.

Grand Lodge

Always nice to check in on a comment and see how the conversation has gone! I appreciate those who have tried to make a comment in the spirit of discussion as opposed to just being snarky. Or argumentative. My OP was really a lament. I love Pathfinder and so do my players. A bunch of them love using digital tools and spent years loving HLC. We made a HUGE decision to NOT go to 5e but stick with Pathfinder 2e and Paizo. Back when I posted this, I had just finished a session where I saw real frustration with the digital tool meant to support our play. And my posts to LWD have not gotten the response i had hoped. I just want Paizo to hold this third party publisher up to their own high standards. Or find another partner.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service & Community Manager

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Removed post. Do not advocate or suggest pirating of RPG materials on paizo.com.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Hero Lab is dead, as far as PF2 is concerned. Pathbuilder is better than it in almost every way.

Except it only runs on the one platform I don't really have useful access to. But yes, it is a great tool although for my taste it's a bit convoluted to get a PDF to a PC to print.


Zaister wrote:
it only runs on the one platform

I have it running on multiple platforms so I know this it incorrect.


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graystone wrote:
Zaister wrote:
it only runs on the one platform
I have it running on multiple platforms so I know this it incorrect.

I think his point was that officially this is only available through the Android app store.

To other people's point, I hear that the Bluestacks Android emulator works really well.


VestOfHolding wrote:
I think his point was that officially this is only available through the Android app store.

Googleplay: This is ignoring the various ways there is to get google play and apps to run on other systems so the post was misleading: If he'd have said 'it only runes on one platform natively' that's correct though I've heard they are trying to spread out to others.

VestOfHolding wrote:
To other people's point, I hear that the Bluestacks Android emulator works really well.

Works great.


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No offense graystone, but not everyone is tech savvy enough to know to do that. Zaisters point still stands and is correct. Pathbuilder only runs on one platform. If you have to run up an emulator to get it to work then it is still only running on the one platform it was built for.

Anyway, my players and I have been using Herolabs online for our society and AP games. I have also been using their encounter builder. I'll admit that the naming convention they used for it is a little strange but the actual mechanisms of it work very well. The content sharing is also working well and can be applied to up to 4 campaigns. I'd recommend OP take another look at it, considering they already bought a license which is probably still in use.


Zioalca wrote:
No offense graystone, but not everyone is tech savvy enough to know to do that.

Several people have mentioned bluestacks and other emulators in this thread. I wouldn't call it "tech savvy" to download bluestacks, run it and using googleplay to download the app.

This only takes a simple internet search to find bluestacks and a simple googleplay search [it's already part of bluestacks] for pathbuilder: this means you have to be "tech savvy" enough to type "Bluestacks" and "pathbuilder" and click download/add twice. This is something my elderly mother can do and she can barely turn her computer on. If anyone finds this to tough, I'm sure people online like here could help them explain internet searches and/or how to spell the programs/apps in question.

Zioalca wrote:
If you have to run up an emulator to get it to work then it is still only running on the one platform it was built for.

AGAIN, it's misleading to just state that: it's like saying herolabs doesn't run on any platform because it can only run through another program [IE your browser].


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I think this is less a matter of how difficult it actually is, and more a case of how intimidating the idea of emulating a platform can be to someone that doesn't know how easy it can be, now.


HammerJack wrote:
I think this is less a matter of how difficult it actually is, and more a case of how intimidating the idea of emulating a platform can be to someone that doesn't know how easy it can be, now.

IMO that's like saying the program itself requires you to be 'tech savvy' without doing your research. For myself, something that requires tech savvy is something that requires some tricky setup or a difficult process a layman can't do: using bluestacks and pathbuilder isn't that. it's literally as simple as downloading and running the programs.

If their point was that the idea was "intimidating", that's more a matter of educating yourself not learning some new technical know how. It's not rocket surgery but basic internet/computer use that anyone that got here should be able to do.

Silver Crusade

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You have an interesting definition of "layperson" there. Emulating an operating system is far cry from what normal, actual people do with their computers and even if it was as simple as two clicks of a mouse, it's still an advanced topic. Heck, being aware of the fact that you can emulate Android on a PC is advanced knowledge.

It's nice that you can stroke your ego a bit about how doing such things is basic and how anybody who is finding it intimidating is an unwashed philistine, but it doesn't change the facts.


"educating yourself" and "learning some new technical know how" are synonymous phrases - a distinction without a difference.


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Gorbacz wrote:
Heck, being aware of the fact that you can emulate Android on a PC is advanced knowledge.

This is exactly what I was trying to imply. Regardless of how easy this is to do, most people would not think of this as a possible solution. Furthermore, not everyone that plays Pathfinder is on these forums or is reading a thread that mentions bluestacks and pathbuilder. If the person isn't aware that this is even a possible solution, they won't know to look for it and it becomes an unknown unknown to them. That is what I meant by tech savvy.

I'm also not trying to mislead anyone. Using bluestacks to run pathbuilder on something other than an android device with the google play store is a completely solid option. Fact of the matter is, pathbuilder is only designed to run on the android platform and stating anything else is a lie.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

It’s a barrier to entry, even if it is only foot height.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
It’s a barrier to entry, even if it is only foot height.

Darn knee-high walls.


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Yeah, Graystone, I'm going to agree with others on this one. I'm a software engineer, generally feel that I've pretty tech savvy, and would feel very confident in checking Bluestacks out if I didn't already have an Android device. How about we use our knowledge to gladly share a brief tutorial on getting Pathbuilder up and running through Bluestacks instead of talking down to people about what our elderly mothers could do?

And no, "Check out Bluestacks" is not enough. That is helpful enough for plenty of people, sure, but we could pretty easily eliminate the barrier to entry entirely by just helpfully going through the process. Hell, with programs I haven't used before even I get a sense of ease and security out of those types of things just to double check that I'll just do it right the first time. Maybe that's just my anxiety, but whatever, the double check is appreciated.


Gorbacz wrote:
It's nice that you can stroke your ego a bit about how doing such things is basic and how anybody who is finding it intimidating is an unwashed philistine, but it doesn't change the facts.

Really? Someone hasn't even looked at the product in question and has already decided it requires tech savvy to use... I wouldn't call the ability to read a website having anything to do with my ego but one that requires simple reading skills and a minimum of effort. I don't know about you, but it doesn't do anything for my ego to say I can read and type words into an internet site... :P

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It’s a barrier to entry, even if it is only foot height.

Those barriers are reading comprehension and the ability to use an internet search. Again, we aren't talking rocket surgery or the need for any tech know how. I'm not saying you don't have to put forth a minimum of effort to do it, just disagreeing it takes any tech know how to do so. I'm confident anyone that found this thread can manage it with little issue.

thenobledrake wrote:
"educating yourself" and "learning some new technical know how" are synonymous phrases - a distinction without a difference.

IMO, not when it doesn't involve anything technical. Would you say a sign that reads 'push' is technical know how? I wouldn't.

Zioalca wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Heck, being aware of the fact that you can emulate Android on a PC is advanced knowledge.
This is exactly what I was trying to imply.

This makes NO sense to me as it's is already something you KNOW from this thread: as such, it's a pretty moot point. It's like saying it's a technical issue that I need english to read this post... We're already past those points if you're complaining bluestacks needs tech savvy: I already know they you know emulation is possible and you can read english.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
graystone wrote:

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It’s a barrier to entry, even if it is only foot height.
Those barriers are reading comprehension and the ability to use an internet search. Again, we aren't talking rocket surgery or the need for any tech know how. I'm not saying you don't have to put forth a minimum of effort to do it, just disagreeing it takes any tech know how to do so. I'm confident anyone that found this thread can manage it with little issue.

What’s that fallacy about experts being unable to recall what it is like to be a neophyte?

I had to support a user who needed email on his smartphone, and when I told him to press the button to open settings his response was “how do I do that?” Had to really shift my headspace to get him set up.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:


I had to support a user who needed email on his smartphone, and when I told him to press the button to open settings his response was “how do I do that?” Had to really shift my headspace to get him set up.

I mean in fairness, there's a difference between asking someone to open settings and that person asking for help because they don't know how and asking someone to open settings and them insisting that opening settings requires too much tech savvy and is therefore impossible and beyond consideration for the average user and that you're an ivory tower elitist for even bringing it up.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I mean, it was literally a button front and center on the screen and he didn’t know how to press it.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
that fallacy about experts being unable to recall what it is like to be a neophyte?

I was a complete neophyte with emulators when I tried out bluestacks. As such, I recall it quite well thank you. it's LITERALLY skimming through a bit on their site, hitting download, running the program, typing 'pathbuilder' into the integrated googleplay and hitting install. This is ALL with never using an emulator or googleplay before.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I mean, it was literally a button front and center on the screen and he didn’t know how to press it.

That's an issue with general perception and not tech know how... But I understand the point: I've had issues telling someone to 'ctrl-alt-delete' over the phone and getting them to understand it was holding those all down and not one after the other... But, IMO, that was because she wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and not technical issue.

Grand Lodge

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graystone wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
that fallacy about experts being unable to recall what it is like to be a neophyte?
I was a complete neophyte with emulators when I tried out bluestacks. As such, I recall it quite well thank you. it's LITERALLY skimming through a bit on their site, hitting download, running the program, typing 'pathbuilder' into the integrated googleplay and hitting install. This is ALL with never using an emulator or googleplay before.

Now imagine telling someone “use this emulator to run it” and being asked “what’s an emulator?”

graystone wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I mean, it was literally a button front and center on the screen and he didn’t know how to press it.
That's an issue with general perception and not tech know how... But I understand the point: I've had issues telling someone to 'ctrl-alt-delete' over the phone and getting them to understand it was holding those all down and not one after the other... But, IMO, that was because she wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and not technical issue.

It’s all about speaking the same language as who you’re working with. You can’t ask someone “what’s your Reflex save?” If they don’t know what ability scores are. As much as we try to lower the barriers to entry, we can’t just say “they are so small they don’t exist”.


Squiggit wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:


I had to support a user who needed email on his smartphone, and when I told him to press the button to open settings his response was “how do I do that?” Had to really shift my headspace to get him set up.
I mean in fairness, there's a difference between asking someone to open settings and that person asking for help because they don't know how and asking someone to open settings and them insisting that opening settings requires too much tech savvy and is therefore impossible and beyond consideration for the average user and that you're an ivory tower elitist for even bringing it up.

But it might be closely linked to someone looking at a tool that only runs on Android and not even considering that it might be possible to run it on another platform with an emulator.

Especially when the first response is just "Wrong" with no mention of emulators or that there might be any technical challenge in setting it up.
I don't think most were saying it wouldn't be possible, just that many wouldn't even think of it. It's not "ivory tower elitism" to suggest it, but it is a mistake to think that because it's easy and obvious to you, that it's equally easy and obvious to someone without the same technical background.

Also, while Bluestacks has been mentioned in this thread before, the last mention was two months before this kerfuffle blew up, so it's somewhat forgivable not to notice or remember it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I think I will give it a try this weekend and see how it works..


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Now imagine telling someone “use this emulator to run it” and being asked “what’s an emulator?”

I don't have to imagine: this thread has already gone over that. This thread has made it clear it's a program that allows you to use pathbuilder, the program in question: nothing else needs to be known. That and I've already gone over the steps. I don't know the nuts and bolts of howit works but I don't have to: download it and it works.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It’s all about speaking the same language as who you’re working with.

That isn't an issue: we're talking about someone that's gotten here and read the thread. That is ALL the know how you need. you had to have the equivalent of “what’s your Reflex save?" if you where going to use pathbuilder if it was made for other platforms, so bluestack is a simple other step, not a new language. If you could download a program for PC you can download bluestack: not rocket surgery but adding another step you can already do.


graystone wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Now imagine telling someone “use this emulator to run it” and being asked “what’s an emulator?”

I don't have to imagine: this thread has already gone over that. This thread has made it clear it's a program that allows you to use pathbuilder, the program in question: nothing else needs to be known. That and I've already gone over the steps. I don't know the nuts and bolts of howit works but I don't have to: download it and it works.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It’s all about speaking the same language as who you’re working with.
That isn't an issue: we're talking about someone that's gotten here and read the thread. That is ALL the know how you need. you had to have the equivalent of “what’s your Reflex save?" if you where going to use pathbuilder if it was made for other platforms, so bluestack is a simple other step, not a new language. If you could download a program for PC you can download bluestack: not rocket surgery but adding another step you can already do.

So what we're doing here is hassling someone who didn't remember or overlooked comments from a couple months ago because they'd looked at Pathbuilder and saw it only ran on Android. And you didn't even start with "Hey, did you know you can run Android apps on other platforms using Bluestack. It's easy and straightforward." Nope, you just told them they were wrong.

Silver Crusade

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graystone wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
It's nice that you can stroke your ego a bit about how doing such things is basic and how anybody who is finding it intimidating is an unwashed philistine, but it doesn't change the facts.
Really? Someone hasn't even looked at the product in question and has already decided it requires tech savvy to use...

Can you run the product natively? No? Then yes it does.


Some years ago, my team had developed an application for a large company, which purpouse was HR planning.
I was giving a training session to a group of users, telling them how to use the application.
Besides translating it in English, this is the literal dialogue that happened at a certain point between one of the users and me:

User: "How can I change an employee's level?"
Me: "You select the Level Change action."
User: "What if I have to change their contract type?"
Me: "You select the Contract Change action."
User: "And what if I have to change both their contract and their level?"
Me: "You select the Contract+Level Change action."
User: "But this is too hard! Understanding this thing requires brain connections that I don't have!"

Here is an example of what you are dealing with.
Besides, I was scolded later because, according to that user, the training session didn't go well. Go figure.

Shadow Lodge

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Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
It's nice that you can stroke your ego a bit about how doing such things is basic and how anybody who is finding it intimidating is an unwashed philistine, but it doesn't change the facts.
Really? Someone hasn't even looked at the product in question and has already decided it requires tech savvy to use...
Can you run the product natively? No? Then yes it does.

There are programs that run natively that require tech savvy for how damn poor the UI is.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
It's nice that you can stroke your ego a bit about how doing such things is basic and how anybody who is finding it intimidating is an unwashed philistine, but it doesn't change the facts.
Really? Someone hasn't even looked at the product in question and has already decided it requires tech savvy to use...
Can you run the product natively? No? Then yes it does.
There are programs that run natively that require tech savvy for how damn poor the UI is.

Fair, and funny, but probably beside their point.

Graystone makes a point about this thread already containing all the information someone would need to run Pathbuilder on Bluestacks if they wanted to because of how much it has been gone over. Except, if I wanted to learn how to do it, wow would I not come to this thread for it, lol. Too much talking down to people like hypothetical me. I don't need that toxicity.

Can we maybe tone that down?

EDIT: Oh yeah, so Herolab Online things.

Yeah, I'm still not a fan. There are too many tools that get too close to doing that for a low to free cost (certainly like Pathbuilder). Definitely hope OP keeps giving the system a shot, just probably with different tools. :)


graystone wrote:
thenobledrake wrote:
"educating yourself" and "learning some new technical know how" are synonymous phrases - a distinction without a difference.
IMO, not when it doesn't involve anything technical. Would you say a sign that reads 'push' is technical know how? I wouldn't.

Literally.

And in asking your question you have done the same thing you were doing earlier and assuming prior training or experience that are not necessarily shared by all people.


graystone wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
that fallacy about experts being unable to recall what it is like to be a neophyte?

I was a complete neophyte with emulators when I tried out bluestacks. As such, I recall it quite well thank you. it's LITERALLY skimming through a bit on their site, hitting download, running the program, typing 'pathbuilder' into the integrated googleplay and hitting install. This is ALL with never using an emulator or googleplay before.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I mean, it was literally a button front and center on the screen and he didn’t know how to press it.
That's an issue with general perception and not tech know how... But I understand the point: I've had issues telling someone to 'ctrl-alt-delete' over the phone and getting them to understand it was holding those all down and not one after the other... But, IMO, that was because she wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and not technical issue.

For what it is worth, I am not a neophyte with emulators, and that fact resulted in my not trying Blue Stacks until reading your argument that it was easy. I've spent some pretty unpleasant time wasted trying to get emulators working in the past.

I will however also add that getting BlueStacks to run on my Mac was slightly harder than what you have described here - I had to change to an admin account (Giving an Admin Authorisation was apparently insufficient), and give the emulator a few permissions in my mac's settings - one of which I had to look up instructions on ... even so that still makes it infinitely easier than some of my previous experiences with emulators.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Ah that sucks. I will say it was significantly easier on PC. Which makes sense, Macs go out of the way to make going out of their ecosystem difficult.

Liberty's Edge

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Not to distract from the pissing contest about how hard it is or is not to install a Virtual Machine/Emulator on a given device, or rather, getting back to the actual thread topic... nearly all of the gripes the OP spoke about in the initial post have been addressed with updates since December.

- The UI/UX has seen dramatic improvements
- It runs smoothly even in areas with congested 3G/4G coverage
- Loading times have been improved
- The number of clicks/taps to configure a Character has been reduced
- Users don't need to personally buy everything on their own if they connect to a Campaign run by another User with a Patron Account (Much like the D&D Beyond system)
- The AP material for the player content is complete for all 6 volumes of AoA
- Organized Play support for Boons/Fame/Reputation has been added
- It also runs in any OS you can imagine that was built in the last 20 years as long as you have a modern internet browser.

That said, there are still bugs on the system and it's not exactly perfect but then again, who is? Plus, any time I've had an issue or confusion a quick email to their support helped me figure out what the problem is and let them know when I ran into a bug, of the dozen issues I reported over the last year or so nearly all of the bugs I found have been addressed, typically within about a month of reaching out.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gorbacz wrote:

You have an interesting definition of "layperson" there. Emulating an operating system is far cry from what normal, actual people do with their computers and even if it was as simple as two clicks of a mouse, it's still an advanced topic. Heck, being aware of the fact that you can emulate Android on a PC is advanced knowledge.

It's nice that you can stroke your ego a bit about how doing such things is basic and how anybody who is finding it intimidating is an unwashed philistine, but it doesn't change the facts.

I am certainly not a lay person, in fact I am quite "tech-savvy", and yes I know Bluestacks and have used it to see if it can run Pathbuilder, but I don't like it much, as a platform emulator it leaves much to be desired, and I'm not a fan of running programs in that way. I've been running Linux on my main computer for 20 years, and I don't much like to use wine there either.

Also, to run Pathbuilder on Bluestacks you need to reconfigure the emulator to be portrait-oriented, which can be problematic on a landscape-shaped monitor.

Finally, as I said before, getting a useful PDF from Pathbuilder that I can print is rather convoluted – you need an external PDF app which can then export the file to something like a network drive or cloud storage that you can then access from your PC. Or do you know a better way?

Pathbuilder is clearly designed to be used on your phone while sitting at the table, and not for providing an actual character sheet for printing, but using your PC with Bluestacks at the table in that way is, well, less than ideal.

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