Speculation on leadership.


Rules Discussion

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So the GmG comes out in February and one of the features that I believe was mentioned in a stream was leadership.

With the way 2E works I can't imagine how a character would gain leadership unless it is a subsystem that you track points and those points allow you to gain followers. Howvere with familiars and animal companions being pretty nerfed in 2E I also can't imagine what a cohort would look like either.

Anyone care to speculate or theory craft hiw this might work.


I hate leadership as a class/character feature personally. Aside from cheese it always ends up being narratively weird.

That said I believe it would likely end up looking similar to some of the firebrand cohort feats from the LoCG


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

I hate leadership as a class/character feature personally. Aside from cheese it always ends up being narratively weird.

That said I believe it would likely end up looking similar to some of the firebrand cohort feats from the LoCG

I share this sentiment. But if they are bringing it back, I dunno what it will look like. A lower level character has trouble surviving combats.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would like leadership to work something like Follow The Expert but for non skill proficiency. It's actually be a nice tool in a gms toolbox to expand the lower range of viable foes if they have an on level captain.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The trouble with leadership is that it creates a conceptual disparity between the nature of a PC and the nature of an NPC. Why should I need a feat to explore some tomb with Bob the Mercenary Minion, but need no special investment or dedication to go along with four or five random adventurers that are PCs?

It also seems counterintuitive to force a player to spend an action every turn (assuming leadership is linked to the minion rules) to direct your henchman (men) in battle.

I would hope to see a system where leadership isn't a function of spending a feat and an action in combat, but instead a function of spending gold during downtime and using your charisma and your reputation to attract a hireling that would then need to be paid and given food & lodgings. You might be able to give the hireling standing orders so he could act independently without spending actions, but the hireling could also be subject to a morale determination to find out if he balks at running into combat.

There are ways to handle hirelings and henchmen that don't involve a feat, but that do take advantage of various features that are already part of PF2. I'm eager to see how they juggle it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Given the balancing of PF2, I do not expect cohorts.
If we do get cohorts, then I'd imagine they'd have rigorous rules like animal companions, so that their attacks are no better than a secondary attack for a PC. I think that'd be relatively useless though and awkward to implement given the equipment they'd have access to. Also, I doubt a feat chain (to match the AC chain) would hold much appeal.
It's such a huge can of worms (and always has been) that I can't see cohorts returning in such a structured system as PF2. Maybe as their own individuals, but not as offshoots of a PC. So there might be rules about long-term NPC usage?

Sidenote: I did allow Leadership in several campaigns, but generally PCs had to draft them from NPCs (if willing) that existed. That made their presence, powers, & personality organic rather than contrived. Players also recognized treasure wouldn't increase and they had to support their NPC.

If Leadership returns, I'd imagine it'll be tied to a Kingmaker/Skull & Shackles leadership role where the followers are more for Downtime activities, perhaps aiding in non-confrontational Exploration or warfare if such mechanics are introduced.
-Followers may just be feathers in one's cap, like PFS boons.
"I'm an admiral." "And?" "And what? I'm a friggin' admiral!"
-I could see Leadership as an alternative income stream too, likely making no more (after upkeep) than any other income streams. "I devote my downtime to making money by leading my minions."


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

I hate leadership as a class/character feature personally. Aside from cheese it always ends up being narratively weird.

I agree with you.

But I am also curious to see what they will bring up.

The Exchange

My guess is that is a variant of the PFS Hitreling. A companion focused on a subset of activities which allows you to take a set of interrelated skills (1-2) feats (1 or 2) and lore (2-3) performing at a slightly lower skill level


For the record/Paizo eyes, I would like a faction system much like the one introduced in late 3.X. Explicit ranks & benefits based on achievements and alliances.
Given the modest nature of buffs in PF2, I don't (yet) know what'd balance or skew.


I would consider the most workable option is simply to have the Cohort function identically to Animal Companions- pick a statblock from a list, it gets better if you take more Feats and it takes an action a turn to command it. The main differences between them would be roleplaying and class access.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Speculation on leadership. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.