Obedience and Deities - Who should you worship?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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The one true way to decide on worship is obviously power. If your chosen deity can't even be bothered to help out their most faithful servants in their time of need, then they are either weak or cruel. Neither is a quality you should look for in a person, and especially not a God.
So I say, might makes right! The extradimensional hand of the planes will guarantee that worship goes to those that deserve worship, as long as people are allowed to make informed decisions untainted by societal pressure.

So anyway, here's some cool Fey Obedience benefits.

Magdh:
Obedience: Paint two dots above each ear to represent Magdh’s three sets of eyes. Cast leaves, bones, or coins into a bowl of clear water, and attempt to divine meaning from the way they land. You gain a +4 bonus on Intelligence-based skill checks.

1: Secret Knowledge (Sp) identify 3/day, augury 2/day, or clairaudience/clairvoyance 1/day
2: Sight Beyond Time (Su) You constantly see a few moments down your own line of fate, and thus are never surprised or flat-footed. In addition, you gain a +2 insight bonus to AC and on Reflex saves.
3: Baleful Revelation (Sp) You can cast prediction of failure once per day.

***

The Obedience giving a +4 bonus to all int-based skills is hella sweet considering that it's the ability score with the most skills, and there's plenty of ways to key even more skill to intelligence. But the Second Boon is even better. Never surprised or Flat-Footed because you can literally see the future is pretty much the coolest thing ever, and is far more powerful than simply always getting to act in the Surprise Round.

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Shyka:
Obedience: Build something small and fragile—such as a house of cards, an ice sculpture, or a sand castle—while contemplating the fleeting nature of existence and the inevitability of entropy. Leave your creation to decay at its own pace. You gain a +2 sacred bonus on initiative checks.

1: Twist Time (Sp) entropic shield 3/ day, augury 2/day, or haste 1/day
2: Borrowed Memories (Su) Once per day as a standard action, you can gain the effects of legend lore, save that the legends are recalled immediately and you gain the most complete level of knowledge (as if the person, place, or thing were at hand, regardless of its actual position). Your recollection of the legend takes the form of a memory borrowed from someone familiar with the subject matter.
3: Pause (Sp) You gain the ability to pause time for yourself or one creature you designate within 30 feet once per day. This functions as per time stop but with a duration of 1 round.

***

The Obedience is already half a feat, so it doesn't need to provide much to be on par with a normal feat. But it definitely goes beyond that with the Second Boon which is the 6th lv spell Legend Lore on crack.
Even if you only know rumors, you can spend a standard action instead of 2d6 weeks and still gain the best possible result the spell can give you. This can save months and even years of downtime. The Third Boon is a one round Time Stop, but can be used on other creatures which gives it a bit more versatility than the normal spell.

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Ng:
Obedience: Wear gloves or a veil at all times. As long as you have followed this stricture for the last 24 hours, you gain a +4 sacred bonus on saving throws against effects that damage, drain, or penalize ability scores.

1: Pass Freely (Sp) expeditious retreat 3/day, invisibility 2/day, or blink 1/day
2: Planeswalker (Sp) You gain the ability to cast plane shift once per day.
3: Home at the Crossroads (Sp) Once per day, you can cast maze—the resulting extradimensional labyrinth takes the form of an endless network of empty roads running through a lonely forest. Conversely, you can also choose to target yourself with this ability, in which case you travel to the same extradimensional crossroads yourself, along with any willing targets within 100 feet, and can stay there indefinitely without needing food or drink. Anyone brought there by this second method can leave the crossroads at any time by willing it, but cannot return without another use of this ability.

***

Maze is pretty good, no questions asked. But the second use of the ability is greater than sliced bread. It's your own personal demiplane that lasts indefinitely, nobody in it requires sustenance, and every willing target within 100 ft is teleported there with you. No creature limit at all. It's a very effective panic button and pairs well with the Second Boon that allows you to cast Plane Shift.
Also, the Obedience save bonus would apply against most polymorph spells.

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These are the three most interesting Obedience benefits in my opinion, since they give unique and powerful abilities. What are other deities worthy of worship?


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I put together this document to help look at the abilities better. The intention was to make a searchable list, rather than something that dives into the gory details.

Anyway, after putting it together these were the ones that jumped out at me.

Baphomet (Sentinel):

Spoiler:
Obedience: Remain motionless for 55 minutes, and then spend the last 5 minutes speaking 50 observations regarding your surroundings into a hollowed-out bull’s horn. Gain immunity to maze and a +4 profane bonus on saving throws against confusion and insanity effects.

1: Might of the Labyrinth (Sp) enlarge person 3/day, bull’s strength 2/day, or nondetection 1/day
2: Devouring Beast (Ex) To aid in your profane crusade against the cult’s many enemies, Baphomet sends one of the flesh-eating bulls of the Ivory Labyrinth to slaughter and feed at your side. You gain an aurochs animal companion as a druid of a level equal to your Hit Dice – 4, in addition to any animal companions you already have. This animal companion possesses the fiendish template and the extraplanar subtype, along with a bite attack that inflicts 1d6 points of damage. Any day on which you fail to perform your obedience, this beast vanishes back to the Ivory Labyrinth; if returned to the Abyss, whether by this or by other means, it returns to you when you next perform your obedience (along with any gear it was equipped with).
3: Invocation of the Gorgon (Su) You gain the change shape universal monster ability, allowing you to assume the form of an ivory-colored gorgon as per beast shape IV. Although you can activate this ability only once per day, the new form lasts indefinitely. If you lose access to this boon by failing to perform your obedience, you cannot change forms or return to your true form until you perform the obedience again or the effect is otherwise ended.

Everything you get is pretty nice, but the standout ability (IMO) is boon #2. For the cost of one feat (two if you need to take the feat Damned Soldier) you get a templated animal companion that progresses with you.

Erastil:

Spoiler:
Obedience:Plant five seeds in fertile earth, spacing them out in the shape of an arrow. The seeds may be those of any plant that can potentially grow in the region, though edible plants are preferred. The seeds don’t need to be from a type of plant that could thrive in that soil—all they must have is a chance at survival. If no suitable earth exists, place a small bundle of seeds (again, those that grow edible plants are preferred), a small bundle of preserved food, or a quiver of arrows in a place where a passerby might see it. Mark your gifts with Erastil’s sign, and say a prayer for the health and safety of the communities in the area and those who may be in need of Erastil’s guidance. Gain a +4 sacred bonus on Survival checks.

Evangelist
1: Family's Bond (Sp) cure light wounds 3/day, shield other 2/day, or prayer 1/day
2: Twin Fang (Ex) Once per day as a standard action, you can summon an exact double of your animal companion. The double acts and thinks like your animal companion in every way, and obeys your commands just as the original would. Your original animal companion and its double understand and trust each other perfectly. The double remains for 1 round for every Hit Die you possess, and then vanishes. If you don’t have an animal companion, you instead gain the ability to use summon nature’s ally V as a spell-like ability once per day.
3: Faithful Archer (Ex) You are particularly skilled at using Erastil’s favored weapon. When using a longbow, you add your Wisdom bonus on attack and damage rolls against targets within 30 feet.

Exalted
1: Animal Friend (Sp) charm animal 3/day, animal messenger 2/day, or summon nature’s ally III 1/day
2: Hunter's Ally (Sp) Once per day as a standard action, you can summon a pair of hound archons. The hound archons follow your commands perfectly for 1 minute for every Hit Die you possess before vanishing back to their home in Heaven. The hound archons don’t follow commands that would violate their lawful good alignment. Such commands will not only earn refusal and scorn from the hound archons, but could cause them to attack you if the command is particularly egregious.
3: Communal Table (Sp) Your devotion to caring for your community allows you to evoke Erastil’s divine bounty to feed your friends with a banquet of cooked game and simple beverages. Once per day, you can use heroes’ feast as a spell-like ability. Creatures that eat from this communal table, a process that takes 1 hour, gain a +2 sacred bonus on attack rolls and Will saving throws instead of the usual +1 morale bonus. Whenever you cast this spell, choose one teamwork feat; you may select a new feat every time you cast this spell, but once it’s cast, your selection can’t be changed. Anyone who eats from the communal table gains the benefits of the chosen teamwork feat. The benefits of the heroes’ feast, including the bonus teamwork feat, last for 12 hours. A character doesn’t need to meet the prerequisites for a teamwork feat granted through this ability.

Another one having to do with animal companions. The Evangelist Boon #2 is nice. Do you have an amazing animal companion? well here's another. The Exalted Boon #3 is also pretty nice. Get all the benefits of heroes feast (an under rated spell IMO) every day for free AND get any teamwork feat AND share said teamwork feat with your entire party ignoring pre-reqs. This is quite nice for any class that uses teamwork feats. While it's a shame that these fall into different lines. It is possible to grab both with the feat Diversified Obedience. You know, if you're a character with an animal companion that messes with teamwork feats (eg. a hunter).

Andirifkhu(Evangelist):

Spoiler:
Obedience:Torture a living creature that is smaller than your size category on a mechanical device that utilizes blades or spikes, or torture a bound creature of any size with a knife. The creature must remain alive for the duration, and must die within 1 minute of the obedience’s end. Gain a +4 profane bonus on saves against illusions and a +4 profane bonus to AC against traps that inflict slashing damage.

1: Alter Perception (Sp) silent image 3/day, mirror image 2/day, or invisibility sphere 1/day
2: Subtle Razor (Ex) You gain sneak attack +2d6; this stacks with any sneak attack damage you can already deal from class levels and other sources. In addition, whenever you deal sneak attack damage, you can have all damage dealt by the attack become nonlethal damage. If you deal nonlethal damage this way to a creature that is unaware of your presence, the creature is unaware it has been attacked or has taken damage (instead experiencing a sense of unexplained weariness or weakness).
3: Unreal Legion (Su) Once per day, you can create three illusory copies of yourself. These copies are semireal; each uses your saving throws, has an Armor Class equal to your touch AC, and has hit points equal to one-quarter your maximum hit points. The copies move as you mentally direct them (a free action) and can be instructed to attack, although they always miss (the copies can provide flanking, however). When you cast a spell or use an ability, you can have the copies appear to cast that spell or use that ability simultaneously; if the effect has an obvious point of origin, you can have it appear to originate from all copies simultaneously. As an immediate action, you can switch places with one of the copies. If a copy is ever more than 60 feet from you, leaves your line of sight, or is reduced to 0 hit points, it immediately ceases to exist; otherwise, the copies last 24 hours or until you use this ability again, whichever comes first.

Any build that's looking to maximize sneak attack probably wants this. boon #2 grants an extra 2d6 sneak attack that doesn't care what your level is. Meaning it will work even when accomplished sneak attacker won't. Not to mention you get your choice between silent image, mirror image or invisibility sphere meaning you'll get something useful regardless if you're trying to be sneaky or direct.

Urgathoa(exalted):

Spoiler:
Obedience: Cover a table (or suitable flat surface) with a black velvet cloth and spread a feast atop it. If you are in the wilderness or another area where fine food is not readily available, load the table with the best quality food you can find in whatever amount you have. Eat to the point of painful fullness, sipping wine between dishes and reciting a prayer to Urgathoa. At the end of the hour, consume a piece of rotten fruit, rancid meat, moldy cheese, or other spoiled bit of food. Trust in Urgathoa to protect you from any sickness or disease that might follow. Treat your caster level as 1 higher when casting necromancy spells.

1: Mistress of Undeath (Sp) inflict light wounds 3/day, desecrate 2/day, or animate dead 1/day
2: Bolstering Channel (Su) When you channel negative energy to heal undead creatures, you infuse the targets with negative energy made more powerful by Urgathoa’s influence. Any undead creatures healed by your channeled energy increase their movement speed by 10 feet for 1 round for every Hit Die you possess.
3: Ally from the Grave (Sp) The Pallid Princess’s servants have taken notice of your deeds and answer your call. Once per day as a standard action, you can summon a bhuta (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 41) to serve you. You gain telepathy with the bhuta to a range of 100 feet. The bhuta follows your commands perfectly for 1 minute for every Hit Die you possess before vanishing back to its home. It doesn’t obey commands that would make it perform overly good acts, and such instructions could cause it to attack you if they are particularly egregious.

Not surprisingly the pallid princess gives lots of goodies for the budding necromancer. You get +1 CL for all of your necromancer spells. You can cast animate dead as a spell like ability (meaning you get to ignore the material cost of the spell). When you heal your undead said undead get a minor speed buff and you get a pretty nice personal servant you can call up for a few minutes.

Orcus:

Spoiler:
Obedience:Grind a half-pound of bones from the skeleton of a sentient creature, mix with water to create a gray paste, and then eat it at the end of a long recitation of prayers to Orcus. Gain a +4 profane bonus on all saving throws against death and negative energy effects.

Evangelist
1: Power of Death (Sp) inflict light wounds 3/day, death knell 2/day, or animate dead 1/day
2: Destined for Undeath (Su) Your soul is tainted with the essence of undeath. You are damaged by positive energy and healed by negative energy, as if you were undead; the bonus on saving throws granted by your obedience applies against positive energy effects instead of negative energy effects (you retain the bonus on saving throws against death effects). In addition, you gain immunity to exhaustion, fatigue, and nonlethal damage, and you gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against death effects, diseases, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poisons, stunning, and effects that cause damage, drain, or penalties to your physical ability scores.
3: Word of Finality (Sp) With a single word of unfathomably dark power, you can invoke a concentrated upsurge of negative energy within a living target’s body, snuffing out a creature’s life force with horrific speed. Once per day, you can cast power word kill as a spell-like ability. This is a necromancy (death) effect instead of an enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting] effect.

Like Urgathoa, Orcus is helpful for necromancer builds. The obedience is fairly simple and you can cast animate dead as a spell like ability. There isn't much advantage to picking orcus over Urgathoa but depending on your build it might make more sense.

Circiatto:

Spoiler:
Obedience:Consume rotten or spoiled food, then vomit it up where as many people as possible will find it. Gain a +4 profane bonus on saving throws against disease.

1: command undead 2/day
2: animate dead 2/day
3: create undead 2/day

Circiatto makes it a tough choice for a necromancer. You get the spells command undead, animate dead and create undead as spell like abilities usable twice per day each. This means that you can play literally any class and be a necromancer. Granted, unless take levels in evangelist you won't see these until fairly high level. Not that that's a much of an issue as evangelist doesn't interfere with most builds.

In fact I created the following any class necromancer build based on this obedience.

Late in Life Necromancer

Spoiler:

Key concepts: An Unconventional Necromancer, A master of the Undead that doesn’t cast spells
Deity: Circiatto
Class: Any(7), Evangelist(10), Any(3)
Key Feats: Exotic Heritage [Heal] (1st), Eldritch Heritage[Empyreal](3rd), Fiendish Obedience(5th), Improved Eldritch Heritage[Sacred Cistern] (11th), Command Undead (13th)
Suggested Feats: Charnel Soldiers
Key Features: Gets Command Undead (Spell) at 10th
Gets Animate Dead (no cost) at 13th
Gets Command Undead (Feat) at 13th level
Gets Create Undead (no cost) at 16th


LordKailas wrote:
I put together this document to help look at the abilities better. The intention was to make a searchable list, rather than something that dives into the gory details.

Very useful, thank you.

Quote:
Like Urgathoa, Orcus is helpful for necromancer builds. The obedience is fairly simple and you can cast animate dead as a spell like ability. There isn't much advantage to picking orcus over Urgathoa but depending on your build it might make more sense.

The biggest reason would be that Urgathoa's obedience makes me nauseous just thinking about it. Stuffing yourself to the point of bursting every day? No thanks.

All these Animate Dead SLAs are powerful though. Maybe I can finally play that MJ Spell Warrior Skald, granting Rage Powers to hordes of undead.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Three deities I have always been partial to:

Haagenti: If you are an alchemist, you want his mutagen boosts.

Pharasma: Oddly, the go to choice for knife fighters. No need to bother with a prestige class for this one.

Shei: Good for a late game boost to mental ability scores.


@Haagenti

That Mutagen Boon is damn sweet. Increasing the bonuses and negating the penalties? Perfect.

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Imot (N):
Obedience: Spend an hour in a dark space barely large enough for you to fit and cast your thoughts out from your body. Gain a +4 insight bonus on Perception checks to spot portents and traps; this expanded insight also allows you to disable magic traps as if you had the rogue's trapfinding ability.

1: The Coming Storm (Sp) doom 3/day, scare 2/day, or rain of frogs 1/day
2: Insight into Disaster (Ex) You gain a bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier on initiative checks and Reflex saves.
3: Call Down the Wrath (Sp) You can cast extended control weather once per day.

***

The Boons aren't anything special (initiative is nice), but the Obedience is a good option to keep in mind. You can disable magic traps as if you had Trapfinding. So never again forced into taking rogue or archetypes with Trapfinding, just spend a feat and play what you want.

==

Kerkamoth (LN):
Obedience: Seek out a cluttered place, such as an overgrown garden or messy closet. Spend 1 hour cleaning the space, removing at least half of the contents to consume, donate, or destroy. If you cannot access such a space, spend 1 hour in silent contemplation in an open area, envisioning in detail the orderly creations that might soon fill that place. Gain a +4 bonus on Fortitude saves against effects that would deal hit point damage.

1: Temporal Warden (Sp) sanctuary 3/day, silence 2/day, or sands of time 1/day
2: Timely Absence (Su) Once per day as an immediate action when you would fail a saving throw or be reduced to 0 hit points or fewer by an effect, you can disappear from reality altogether and avoid the immediate effects (not being hit or poisoned, for example). You leave behind a transparent afterimage, and at the beginning of your next turn, you reappear in your space (or the nearest available space if that is now occupied) and are staggered until the end of your turn.
3: Invert Entropy (Su) You take no penalties from energy drain, though you can still be killed if you accrue more negative levels than you have Hit Dice. Once per day as a move action, you can remove a number of your temporary negative levels equal to half your Hit Dice. For every 2 negative levels removed, you gain 10 temporary hit points and a cumulative +1 insight bonus on ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks; both effects last until the end of your next turn.

***

Literally just say "nope" to trouble by escaping reality once per day.

Ssila'meshnik (CN):
Obedience: Ritually bleach your hair and whisper prayers in protean song for an hour, naked, in public view. Gain a +4 sacred bonus on saves against the spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities of creatures with the lawful subtype.

1: Fated (Sp) liberating command 3/day, shard of chaos 2/day, or borrow fortune 1/day
2: Inviolate Freedom (Ex) Once per day as an immediate action when subjected to any circumstance or condition that impedes your movement, you can swap positions or conditions with another creature within 60 feet. An unwilling creature can resist this effect with a Will save (DC = 10 + half your HD + your Charisma modifier).
3: Herald of Paradox (Su) You can tinker with probability as a swift action. This manifests as a swirling halo of protean symbols and grants you prescience for a number of rounds equal to half your character level. This prescience allows you to roll twice and use the better result on a single d20 roll each round.

***

Sooooo... The Obedience may be easier to accomplish if you're capable of transforming into an animal, as animal nudity is somehow completely fine (damn double standards). The Second Boon is quite versatile, since there's a lot of conditions that hamper your movement. Bonus points if you convince your GM that "Dead" technically impedes your movement.
Also, look closely at the Third Boon. There's nothing limiting you to once per day, so you can basically roll one d20 twice every round all day.

Chadali (CG):
Obedience: Deliberately lose yourself in a strange place. If there is nowhere for you to lose yourself, blindfold yourself and wander boldly for 200 steps. Gain a +4 sacred bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity provoked by casting spells or using spell-like abilities.

1: Confident Step (Sp) pass without trace 3/day, aid 2/day, or protection from energy 1/day
2: Serendipitous Reaction (Su) Three times per day, you can knock aside a ranged attack that would have otherwise hit you, as if you had the Deflect Arrows feat. You need not be aware of the attack to use this ability. If you already have Deflect Arrows, you may use this feat an unlimited number of times per day, and can use it even if you are unaware of an attack.
3: Quickstep (Su) Once per day, when you would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points for any reason, you can choose to ignore up to 10 points of damage from the attack or effect that so damaged you, possibly putting you back above 0 hit points.

***

Neither the Obedience or the First and Third Boons are much to look at. I mean, ignoring 10 point of damage from an attack that put you below 0 HP? Won't make a difference at that level. But hey, the Second Boon is hilarious and makes up for everything.
So my guess is that the designer thought that Deflect Arrows had a limited amount of uses per day, or maybe they just intended for it to be totally bonkers. Either way, the Second Boon seems to give you unlimited uses of Deflect Arrows, and even against attacks you're unaware of.


I'm partial to a small list. Power isn't as much the goal as abilities hard to find elsewhere.

Lymnieris: can turn people into babies and has permanent greater polymorph

Mazmess: turns you into a drider

Bophomet: early access to monstrous form by stealing from the ranger list

Gorum: lets druids wear metal armor, and it doesn't meld with their form

andirifkhu: can turn into a trap, literal trap not the other sort.

Areshkagal: gold weapons and armor count as adamantine, gold weapons count as cold iron and silver, gold sickles are +2/+2, adamantite dr increases by 2 if wielding a gold shield

Jubilex: gain some slime traits like all round vision

I'm always looking for more quirky things to add to the list.

Sovereign Court

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Imbrex's obedience is kinda neat. Having Hardness 1 could add up to a significant amount over an adventure path. Statuesque (Sp): Statue 3/day as its second boon is kind of an odd duck. It lasts an hour per level, and you can basically change between statue form and normal as free actions any time during the duration, apparently without limit. So basically, by the time you get it, its on all day.
The 3rd boon is 1/day Storm of Vengeance, which is kind of clunky to use because its slow and can get interrupted... but you can just turn into a statue while channeling it.

Charon's 1st boon can be Create Soul Gem 1/day, the 2nd boon lets you crush (any) soul gem for fast healing 15 for a number of rounds equal to your hit dice... not limited per day only by the number of gems you have. You did get a Cacodaemon familiar to start your stockpile, right?

And of course Arshea that lets you use your looks as armor (Cha as an armor bonus), though the obedience is not safe for work.
Minderhal has something similiar with its exalted 3rd boon. Specifically "Rocky Flesh (Sp) You gain a profane bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on your Fortitude saving throws and to your natural armor bonus." The wording makes me think the natural armor bonus is also a profane bonus (meaning it stacks with barkskin/etc). The obedience is also +1 damage on thrown weapons, which is kinda niche.


ErichAD wrote:
Lymnieris: can turn people into babies and has permanent greater polymorph

Pft. In addition to babymaking, it's also a way to cheat death by old age apparently.

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Firebug wrote:
Imbrex's obedience is kinda neat.

Any ideas on how to increase the Hardness? Magic weapons get +2 to Hardness for every enhancement bonus, and an Unarmed Strike is your whole body according to that FAQ, so maybe there is a way...

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I somehow missed this even though LordKailas provided the Evangelist benefit of Andirifkhu, but the secondary benefit of Subtle Razor is in a league of its own. How will you defend yourself if you're prevented from realizing you've even taken damage or been attacked?

Subtle Razor (Ex) wrote:
You gain sneak attack +2d6; this stacks with any sneak attack damage you can already deal from class levels and other sources. In addition, whenever you deal sneak attack damage, you can have all damage dealt by the attack become nonlethal damage. If you deal nonlethal damage this way to a creature that is unaware of your presence, the creature is unaware it has been attacked or has taken damage (instead experiencing a sense of unexplained weariness or weakness).

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For any Cleric interested in the powerful debuff of the Madness domain, the Second Evangelist Boon of Tsukiyo (LG) makes it even stronger by changing it from single to multi-target and increases the range from melee touch to 30 ft. With the Divine Paragon archetype you don't even lose cleric class levels.

Collective Vision (Su) wrote:
When using the vision of madness granted power from the Madness domain, you can target creatures within 30 feet of you instead of having to touch a single target. You can target a maximum number of creatures equal to 1 for every 4 Hit Dice you have (maximum 5). If you don’t have access to the Madness domain, you instead gain the ability to use the basic version of the vision of madness granted power, touching a single target as a melee touch attack, a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier, as listed in the vision of madness description.


Wonderstell wrote:

...

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Firebug wrote:
Imbrex's obedience is kinda neat.

Any ideas on how to increase the Hardness? Magic weapons get +2 to Hardness for every enhancement bonus, and an Unarmed Strike is your whole body according to that FAQ, so maybe there is a way...

...

well the hardening spell might help, it's permanent, it target is not object like most of these spells but 'one item of a volume no greater than 10 cu. ft./level'

are you an item?

also beware of anyone who has gloves of shaping

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as for interesting combination try being a holy vindicator (with it's stigmata and follow up powers connected to it) of Shax

and im talking about the

2nd 'Demonic Obedience boon':
Life in Blood (Su) You treat bleed effects as fast healing. For example, if you suffer an effect that causes bleed 5, you do not take any damage from the effect and instead gain fast healing 5. This effect ends whenever you are fully healed.

so you might need that feat that let you decide what kind of class of boon your getting since i think normally you get the evangelist\exalted ones.


David knott 242 wrote:


..

Pharasma: Oddly, the go to choice for knife fighters. No need to bother with a prestige class for this one.

..

or a warpreist (or any class that increase weapon damage as they level) mine usually also start out as a river-rat +2 to hit, +1 to damage(from feat and trait) with daggers that get improved weapon damage? my tiefling (armor of the pit) warpriest was a high ac shanking devil of a guy at level 4 (full plate heavy shield AND nat ac. dropping ironskin with fervor was just overdoing it i guess..).


There's a guide to the mystery cultist PrC which also covers & rates the obediences for empyreal lords. Of those I think Falayna's grappling bonus is great for characters built for it.


A bard with versatile performance would appreciate Hastur's deific obedience +4 profane bonus to perform checks...


I always though Milani’s actual obedience ritual is lovely.

The powers themselves aren’t super remarkable although visual effect wise the exalted could be pretty cool.


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I agree, it'd be nice if there were more obediences written like Milani's. It's always disappointing reading another sex/masturbation ritual. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't typically write down my character's sexual habits on the character sheet.


I don’t mind that really, God’s are kinda dicks a lot of the time and don’t live in a world anything like ours or indeed anything like the world the PCs live in.
To Arshea for example waking up in the morning and have a massive naked orgy is probably standard practice. If she wants to spread her influence she’s gonna wanna normalise her behaviour so rewarding people for doing that kind of behaviour makes perfect sense.
All this is to say it doesn’t bother me when the obedience’s are sexual.
That said, I have married other party members in the passed so maybe my game is more open to this sort of thing than yours.

What I mean when I say I like Milani’s is that it just seems like a lovely thing to do with your party in the morning and easy. It’s not always going to be possible to have sex in the morning you might not have that relationship with anyone in the party and might be away from civilisation.
It’s almost always going to be possible to brew a pot of herbal tea. It’s nice character building.


You're misinterpreting Ssila'meshnik's third boon. It's limited to half your character level in rounds.

And in a typical adventuring world I don't think being naked in public view would be that big a deal. Who is going to challenge an adventurer about something like that?


Loren Pechtel wrote:

You're misinterpreting Ssila'meshnik's third boon. It's limited to half your character level in rounds.

And in a typical adventuring world I don't think being naked in public view would be that big a deal. Who is going to challenge an adventurer about something like that?

Me.

You stop that right now and put some damn pants on you hooligan!


Loren Pechtel wrote:
You're misinterpreting Ssila'meshnik's third boon. It's limited to half your character level in rounds.
Herald of Paradox (Su) wrote:
You can tinker with probability as a swift action. This manifests as a swirling halo of protean symbols and grants you prescience for a number of rounds equal to half your character level. This prescience allows you to roll twice and use the better result on a single d20 roll each round.

So a lv 20 character activates Herald of Paradox as a swift action and gains prescience for 10 rounds. Then they activate Herald of Paradox as a swift action. And gains prescience for 10 rounds. Rinse and repeat until the heat death of the universe.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
And in a typical adventuring world I don't think being naked in public view would be that big a deal. Who is going to challenge an adventurer about something like that?

I'm guessing that the large majority of civilized settlements in Golarion would not take kindly to someone deliberately seeking out public locations to undress and whisper for an hour. The requirement of public view gives the Obedience an undertone of exhibitionism, rather than nudism.

Imagine you're on the road with your party, and the moment you spot a village the cleric lets out a sigh of relief and starts unbuckling their pants.
Thank Ssila'meshnik, finally a place for me to be naked in public view.


Wonderstell wrote:
The one true way to decide on worship is obviously power.

I had a petty pithy retort to the subject of this thread, but I see you've already covered it yourself. : D

Still, do the mechanical benefits of even the greatest of these make up for the behavioral and moral shackles one must wear to gain them? I say nay! Cast off the burden of devotion and take up your own destiny!

...What I'm trying to say is, go mythic, pick up divine source and worship yourself.


Wonderstell wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:
You're misinterpreting Ssila'meshnik's third boon. It's limited to half your character level in rounds.
Herald of Paradox (Su) wrote:
You can tinker with probability as a swift action. This manifests as a swirling halo of protean symbols and grants you prescience for a number of rounds equal to half your character level. This prescience allows you to roll twice and use the better result on a single d20 roll each round.
So a lv 20 character activates Herald of Paradox as a swift action and gains prescience for 10 rounds. Then they activate Herald of Paradox as a swift action. And gains prescience for 10 rounds. Rinse and repeat until the heat death of the universe.

Which makes no sense--if it's effectively unlimited why put a limit on it? I think it's meant to be 10 rounds total.

Quote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:
And in a typical adventuring world I don't think being naked in public view would be that big a deal. Who is going to challenge an adventurer about something like that?

I'm guessing that the large majority of civilized settlements in Golarion would not take kindly to someone deliberately seeking out public locations to undress and whisper for an hour. The requirement of public view gives the Obedience an undertone of exhibitionism, rather than nudism.

Imagine you're on the road with your party, and the moment you spot a village the cleric lets out a sigh of relief and starts unbuckling their pants.
Thank Ssila'meshnik, finally a place for me to be naked in public view.

I would not interpret "within public view" to actually require a viewer, just that there could be a viewer. If you simply need a viewer--your party would suffice.


Artofregicide wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:

You're misinterpreting Ssila'meshnik's third boon. It's limited to half your character level in rounds.

And in a typical adventuring world I don't think being naked in public view would be that big a deal. Who is going to challenge an adventurer about something like that?

Me.

You stop that right now and put some damn pants on you hooligan!

I meant what authority is going to challenge them, not whether some average person on the street would complain.


@blahpers

Sure, but then I'd have to spend an hour each day asking myself for favors. Which is... almost worse?

*****

Loren Pechtel wrote:
I meant what authority is going to challenge them, not whether some average person on the street would complain.

...and who would they complain to? Law enforcement. It's most likely a crime to undress like that, which makes you a criminal. And criminals get thrown in jail, fined, or beaten until they stop breaking the law.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
Which makes no sense--if it's effectively unlimited why put a limit on it? I think it's meant to be 10 rounds total.

Sure. But that's not what it says. There's no limitation given, so there is no limitation.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
I would not interpret "within public view" to actually require a viewer, just that there could be a viewer. If you simply need a viewer--your party would suffice.

Not "within public view" but "in public view". The first is your backyard, the second is going to the mall. Worse, if you're required to be in public view the whole hour you'd actually have to start chasing people if they try get away, whispering protean songs all the while.

Again, exhibitionism. I'm not sure how you got skin in the game, but this is likely the patron deity of flashers you're defending.


There are guides to different obedience types, though I'm not sure how current they are.

Wasn't there that one demon lord with an obedience that let you turn into a (non-magic?) trap? I recall it let you become all kinds of dumb stuff.

edit: It's Andirifkhu's sentinel boon. You can boost your HD with bardic music and turn into a lava flood pretty easily.

The solution to Ssila'meshnik is to polymorph into something that doesn't wear clothes, but can still speak. Easiest way is Druid wildshaping with wild speech or that ring that lets them talk while wildshaped.

Silver Crusade

For the sunderer..

Rovagug:
Smash an assortment of items worth at least 10 gp, preferably something fragile, aesthetically beautiful, or with significance to a good-aligned deity (particularly Sarenrae). The more devout servants of Rovagug seek out and hoard particularly expensive, artistic, or rare items, such as fine bottles of wine or delicate curios, to smash during their obedience. Roll in the shards of the destroyed items, howling and shouting praises and curses invoking the Rough Beast, until the shards draw blood and your lungs ache. Gain a +4 bonus on attack and damage rolls against objects.


Wonderstell wrote:


For any Cleric interested in the powerful debuff of the Madness domain, the Second Evangelist Boon of Tsukiyo (LG) makes it even stronger by changing it from single to multi-target and increases the range from melee touch to 30 ft. With the Divine Paragon archetype you don't even lose cleric class levels.

Collective Vision (Su) wrote:
When using the vision of madness granted power from the Madness domain, you can target creatures within 30 feet of you instead of having to touch a single target. You can target a maximum number of creatures equal to 1 for every 4 Hit Dice you have (maximum 5). If you don’t have access to the Madness domain, you instead gain the ability to use the basic version of the vision
...

An amazing boon....

The basic Visions of Madness is one of the best 1st level domain powers out there, this advanced version is one of the Top 5 cleric boons available.

Clerics can already make very good de-buffers.... this boon makes you one of the absolute best in the game IMO.


I would say the witch is probably still up there for debuffing split hex misfortune is a very powerful combo to be able to spam infinitely.

That boon is crazy strong though.


@deuxhero

ErichAD mentioned the trap Boon, but I hadn't even considered it didn't specify mechanical traps. Lots of stupid things you can transform into.

***

@Tin Foil Yamakah

A very strong benefit for just the Obedience, which is probably more in line with the level range most play at. Even if you go into Prestige Classes you're very unlikely to see Third Boons in play, which is a pity.

***

@doc roc

Pairs well with the Aura of Madness, no?


I like Irori. A solid boon for a core deity and no weird obedience.
Leading the party's weapon montage first thing in the morning can be pretty cool.


Wonderstell wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:
I meant what authority is going to challenge them, not whether some average person on the street would complain.
...and who would they complain to? Law enforcement. It's most likely a crime to undress like that, which makes you a criminal. And criminals get thrown in jail, fined, or beaten until they stop breaking the law.

But would law enforcement actually do anything about an adventurer that wasn't actually causing harm? Remember, in general adventurers are the most powerful people around and not someone you want to antagonize without reason.

Besides, I'm not at all sure there would be an indecent exposure law in most such societies in the first place. That's more a modern thing.

Quote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:
I would not interpret "within public view" to actually require a viewer, just that there could be a viewer. If you simply need a viewer--your party would suffice.
Not "within public view" but "in public view". The first is your backyard, the second is going to the mall. Worse, if you're required to be in public view the whole hour you'd actually have to start chasing people if they try get away, whispering protean songs all the while.

I would not interpret my back yard as within public view. And your point about having to chase down watchers makes the idea of actually having to have the public view it make no sense. Not to mention compliance would be often be impossible and the other obediences all are set up so there's always some way to do them, I don't think this would be different.

Quote:
Again, exhibitionism. I'm not sure how you got skin in the game, but this is likely the patron deity of flashers you're defending.

Exhibitionism isn't flashing--the latter is directed at specific person with the intent of shocking.

And my only skin in the game is I feel it's being misinterpreted.


Wonderstell wrote:

@doc roc

Pairs well with the Aura of Madness, no?

I hadn't thought of that.... that's nasty!!

Although at about that time you would probably thinking about laying down a Holy Word as your follow up spell


Grandmother Spider is another great cleric option - as an observation in many of these cases the Divine Paragon archetype seems like a natural fit ...

Great Exalted Boons and very useful bonus spells


Loren Pechtel wrote:

But would law enforcement actually do anything about an adventurer that wasn't actually causing harm? Remember, in general adventurers are the most powerful people around and not someone you want to antagonize without reason.

Besides, I'm not at all sure there would be an indecent exposure law in most such societies in the first place. That's more a modern thing.

The official setting has very modern values and laws, and is absolutely filled with high-level NPCs flaunting class levels. Even in a homebrew power fantasy where you suffer no consequences, your own party members may take offense to your actions and apparent antagonizing of the local population. Pretty hard to be "heroes" if one of you is constantly breaking the law under the implied thread of violence.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
Not to mention compliance would be often be impossible and the other obediences all are set up so there's always some way to do them, I don't think this would be different.

The Obediences do vary wildly in difficulty, and some are not feasible to attempt each day. Exposing yourself to potentially unwilling onlookers would be hard to do as a follower of a Good deity.

Ragathiel (LG)? You must slay a proven wrongdoer each day.
Zevgavizeb (CE)? Impale someone in a cavern with a stalagmite.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
Quote:
Again, exhibitionism. I'm not sure how you got skin in the game, but this is likely the patron deity of flashers you're defending.
And my only skin in the game is I feel it's being misinterpreted.

Are those your true feelings laid bare?


Wonderstell wrote:
The official setting has very modern values and laws, and is absolutely filled with high-level NPCs flaunting class levels. Even in a homebrew power fantasy where you suffer no consequences, your own party members may take offense to your actions and apparent antagonizing of the local population. Pretty hard to be "heroes" if one of you is constantly breaking the law under the implied thread of violence.

Adventurers are in demand because society needs them to deal with threats. That says the local governments generally are not as capable as adventurers. As for modern values--twice I have seen very public female nudity with no apparent public dislike and I've heard of plenty of other cases. Flashers get reported, nutters get reported, exhibitionists get little response.

Quote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:
Not to mention compliance would be often be impossible and the other obediences all are set up so there's always some way to do them, I don't think this would be different.

The Obediences do vary wildly in difficulty, and some are not feasible to attempt each day. Exposing yourself to potentially unwilling onlookers would be hard to do as a follower of a Good deity.

Ragathiel (LG)? You must slay a proven wrongdoer each day.

If you're adventuring you'll have plenty of wrongdoers. However, this doesn't strike me as remotely LG.

Quote:
Zevgavizeb (CE)? Impale someone in a cavern with a stalagmite.

Hard while adventuring--but few CEs are going to adventure. Easy enough in your lair.


Wonderstell wrote:

The Obediences do vary wildly in difficulty, and some are not feasible to attempt each day. Exposing yourself to potentially unwilling onlookers would be hard to do as a follower of a Good deity.

Ragathiel (LG)? You must slay a proven wrongdoer each day.
Zevgavizeb (CE)? Impale someone in a cavern with a stalagmite.

Yeah, I noticed a bunch that didn't really make sense as something a character would reasonably be able to do every day regardless of alignment. For Ragathiel, I figure you have to drag around a cage on wheels full of condemned prisoners. There was another one that required you destroy something of someone else's that has sentimental value to that person (Zurapadyn). This is going to be difficult to pull off on a regular basis even if you stay in town all the time, much less if you need to leave town as it would force you to steal and destroy your companion's stuff.

Then you have others like Alichino, which just requires you to tell a joke and then laugh at your own joke. It doesn't even have to be a new joke. Heck, it's barely even implied you have to tell the joke to another person.


For Ragathiel, I remember there's a dev comment that his obedience kicks in after making an appropriate kill rather than needing do the killing as part of a ritual. Makes it not terrible if you have an aura of good to use litany of righteousness.


deuxhero wrote:
For Ragathiel, I remember there's a dev comment that his obedience kicks in after making an appropriate kill rather than needing do the killing as part of a ritual. Makes it not terrible if you have an aura of good to use litany of righteousness.

I suddenly have images of a justice system where they execute you and then use the results of your execution to determine your guilt. If you are found to be innocent then you get resurrected.


I think it's supposed to be that, as a LG character, people you are killing are obviously evil in front of you. Cultist that wave around unholy symbols and throw Unholy Blight at you are proven wrongdoers because you saw them do it, same with some bandits who are defending their stolen property.


deuxhero wrote:
I think it's supposed to be that, as a LG character, people you are killing are obviously evil in front of you. Cultist that wave around unholy symbols and throw Unholy Blight at you are proven wrongdoers because you saw them do it, same with some bandits who are defending their stolen property.

That's how I see it, also. A LG isn't going to kill a humanoid unless they've shown themselves to be wrongdoers. (I'm putting this restriction on because most undead would be kill-on-sight even if they hadn't done anything. The fact that they are undead is evidence enough.)


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LordKailas wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
For Ragathiel, I remember there's a dev comment that his obedience kicks in after making an appropriate kill rather than needing do the killing as part of a ritual. Makes it not terrible if you have an aura of good to use litany of righteousness.

I suddenly have images of a justice system where they execute you and then use the results of your execution to determine your guilt. If you are found to be innocent then you get resurrected.

The witch trials

Only you get eternal life in heaven instead

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