paizo.com Recent Posts in I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...paizo.com Recent Posts in I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...2020-02-19T18:55:45Z2020-02-19T18:55:45ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#912020-02-19T16:23:21Z2020-02-19T16:23:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote>I mean your stance is fine as long as you don't use this as an excuse to provide the Seedpod with an ability bonus to damage.</blockquote><p>My stance was they get str damage BEFORE they started changing things and so far nothing they have done has changed that.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote>That would be entirely unreasonable; essentially saying "my dreamed-up houserule is RAW until explicitly stricken down by official statement".</blockquote><p>I've given my proof and my explanation why I see it having damage based on the existing rules: I see not giving it str damage a houserule.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote>Since there likely will never be any such clarification (for the reasons me and countless others have explained), this is wilfully blinding yourself to the realities of the situation.</blockquote><p>Since it was unaddressed, I think the conclusion is... that it was unaddressed... Errata JUST added range: full stop. It doesn't meaningfully alter our debate on damage.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote><p>a) Seedpods with no damage modifier
</p>
or
<br />
b) Seedpods are insufficiently defined, and therefore can't be used. (If it was a computer game, trying to use one would crash the game)</blockquote><p>c) there is ONLY one way given to figure out unarmed damage so use it: "Melee damage roll = damage die of weapon or unarmed attack + Strength modifier + bonuses + penalties". I pick c, as you have undefined on one hand and defined on the other so the only way it works is with what's defined. a) just doesn't exist under the current rules: it might 'feel' right but it's no different than looking at Produce Flame under the ranged weapon damage and saying it shouldn't get a spellcasting ability modifier because of the ranged damage equation even though it doesn't include spells. Unarmed only has one damage section, melee.Zapp wrote:I mean your stance is fine as long as you don't use this as an excuse to provide the Seedpod with an ability bonus to damage.
My stance was they get str damage BEFORE they started changing things and so far nothing they have done has changed that. Zapp wrote:That would be entirely unreasonable; essentially saying "my dreamed-up houserule is RAW until explicitly stricken down by official statement".
I've given my proof and my explanation why I see it having damage based on the...graystone2020-02-19T16:23:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Martialmastershttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#902020-02-19T12:40:19Z2020-02-19T12:40:19Z<p>As much as I'd like seedpods with a str modifier. It even makes sense given how they would be"thrown" or "shot" from the leshy body. Maybe even propulsive. </p>
<p>But as currently written I'd probably side with no strength for now but would match it's range to what's in the bestiary since their is zero relative info.</p>
<p>Wich is it really that bad? Most ranged weapons don't get it, you have the added safety of range, it's built in to work with handwraps letting you be a switch hitter without expecting higher than average wealth levels.</p>
<p>Leshy seem like amazing Monk's in this regard since you can flurry of blows at range out of the gate.</p>As much as I'd like seedpods with a str modifier. It even makes sense given how they would be"thrown" or "shot" from the leshy body. Maybe even propulsive.
But as currently written I'd probably side with no strength for now but would match it's range to what's in the bestiary since their is zero relative info.
Wich is it really that bad? Most ranged weapons don't get it, you have the added safety of range, it's built in to work with handwraps letting you be a switch hitter without expecting...Martialmasters2020-02-19T12:40:19ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Zapphttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#892020-02-19T18:55:45Z2020-02-19T08:53:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">graystone wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote>I note they were silent on the damage modifier issue. </blockquote><p>It seems a work in progress to me as they've changed to twice in a short amount of time: I don't see silence as a confirmation of anything. Something explicit would be needed IMO.
</p>
</blockquote><p>As long as you answer any player asking with "it is presently undefined", okay.
<p>I mean your stance is fine as long as you don't use this as an excuse to provide the Seedpod with an ability bonus to damage.</p>
<p>That would be entirely unreasonable; essentially saying "my dreamed-up houserule is RAW until explicitly stricken down by official statement".</p>
<p>Since there likely will never be any such clarification (for the reasons me and countless others have explained), this is wilfully blinding yourself to the realities of the situation.</p>
<p>Your logical options are between
<br />
a) Seedpods with no damage modifier
<br />
or
<br />
b) Seedpods are insufficiently defined, and therefore can't be used. (If it was a computer game, trying to use one would crash the game)</p>
<p>Cheers</p>graystone wrote:Zapp wrote:I note they were silent on the damage modifier issue.
It seems a work in progress to me as they've changed to twice in a short amount of time: I don't see silence as a confirmation of anything. Something explicit would be needed IMO.
As long as you answer any player asking with "it is presently undefined", okay. I mean your stance is fine as long as you don't use this as an excuse to provide the Seedpod with an ability bonus to damage.
That would be entirely...Zapp2020-02-19T08:53:58ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Miy2Centshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#882020-02-19T05:30:16Z2020-02-19T05:30:16Z<p>Yes if they differentiated and made - Unarmed attack Range / Unarmed attack Melee then sure but right now there is only - Unarmed attack and in the equation it can only replace Melee to calculate damage. </p>
<p>- damage die of weapon OR unarmed attack</p>Yes if they differentiated and made - Unarmed attack Range / Unarmed attack Melee then sure but right now there is only - Unarmed attack and in the equation it can only replace Melee to calculate damage.
- damage die of weapon OR unarmed attackMiy2Cents2020-02-19T05:30:16ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#872020-02-02T15:59:46Z2020-02-02T15:59:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote>I note they were silent on the damage modifier issue. </blockquote><p>It seems a work in progress to me as they've changed to twice in a short amount of time: I don't see silence as a confirmation of anything. Something explicit would be needed IMO.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Ranged weapons don’t normally add an ability modifier to the damage roll, though weapons with the propulsive trait (page 283) add half your Strength modifier (or your full modifier if it is a negative number), and thrown weapons add your full Strength modifier.</blockquote>Since it has neither the thrown nor the propulsive trait, and since it is a ranged attack, it is no surprise the Seedpod adds no ability modifier to damage. </blockquote><p>Yes, but that quote in 1000% meaningless.
</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>An unarmed attack isn’t a weapon, though it’s categorized with weapons for weapon groups, and it might have weapon traits.</blockquote><p>The fact that you can add weapon traits doesn't tell you how the base damage is figured out. Until that's done, we have no way to tell if Wind Crash's attack having Propulsive is an upgrade from no damage or a downgrade from full damage:
</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zapp wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Melee damage roll = damage die of weapon or unarmed attack + Strength modifier + bonuses + penalties
</p>
Ranged damage roll = damage die of weapon + Strength modifier for thrown weapons + bonuses + penalties</blockquote><p>If they alter this to include unarmed into the ranged damage equation, then I could see it.Zapp wrote:I note they were silent on the damage modifier issue.
It seems a work in progress to me as they've changed to twice in a short amount of time: I don't see silence as a confirmation of anything. Something explicit would be needed IMO. Zapp wrote:Quote:Ranged weapons don’t normally add an ability modifier to the damage roll, though weapons with the propulsive trait (page 283) add half your Strength modifier (or your full modifier if it is a negative number), and thrown weapons add...graystone2020-02-02T15:59:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Zapphttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#862020-02-02T16:58:58Z2020-02-02T11:15:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Michael Sayre wrote:</div><blockquote>And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was supposed to work and extended that answer to our blog since it's a nonfunctional ability without an answer. Any further updates or changes to their errata will continue be reflected in our rulings accordingly. </blockquote><p>I note they were silent on the damage modifier issue.
<p>To me that means we have confirmation no ability modifier to damage is added.</p>
<p>Which is entirely consistent with the rules:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Ranged weapons don’t normally add an ability modifier to the damage roll, though weapons with the propulsive trait (page 283) add half your Strength modifier (or your full modifier if it is a negative number), and thrown weapons add your full Strength modifier.</blockquote><p>Since it has neither the thrown nor the propulsive trait, and since it is a ranged attack, it is no surprise the Seedpod adds no ability modifier to damage.Michael Sayre wrote:And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was supposed to work and extended that answer to our blog since it's a nonfunctional ability without an answer. Any further updates or changes to their errata will continue be reflected in our rulings accordingly.
I note they were silent on the damage modifier issue. To me that means we have confirmation no ability modifier to damage is added.
Which is...Zapp2020-02-02T11:15:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Uchuujinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#852020-02-01T01:51:19Z2020-02-01T01:51:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Michael Sayre wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Uchuujin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Well, <a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh3j" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">the new blog post</a> just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.</p>
<p>"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."</p>
<p>Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.</p>
<p></blockquote>You literally can't nerf an ability that never worked to begin with. And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was supposed to work and extended that answer to our blog since it's a nonfunctional ability without an answer. Any further updates or changes to their errata will continue be reflected in our rulings accordingly. </blockquote><p>True enough I suppose, but I think it is fair to say that it is below even the most pessimistic of expectations.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">NeilsenE wrote:</div><blockquote> Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range. </blockquote><p>This however does go a long way to helping things out.Michael Sayre wrote:Uchuujin wrote:Well, the new blog post just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.
"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."
Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.
You literally can't nerf an ability that never worked to begin with. And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was...Uchuujin2020-02-01T01:51:19ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#842020-01-31T22:29:25Z2020-01-31T20:52:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">jimthegray wrote:</div><blockquote><p> hmm so what monk abilities can help with this?
</p>
flurry of blows anything else? </blockquote><p>Flurry, Ki Strike, Elemental Fist, Stunning Fist, Shattering Strike, Diamond Fists, Knockback Strike... That's it off hand I can think of, but that just a quick glance.jimthegray wrote:hmm so what monk abilities can help with this?
flurry of blows anything else?
Flurry, Ki Strike, Elemental Fist, Stunning Fist, Shattering Strike, Diamond Fists, Knockback Strike... That's it off hand I can think of, but that just a quick glance.graystone2020-01-31T20:52:11ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...jimthegrayhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#832020-01-31T20:37:22Z2020-01-31T20:37:22Z<p>hmm so what monk abilities can help with this?
<br />
flurry of blows anything else?</p>hmm so what monk abilities can help with this?
flurry of blows anything else?jimthegray2020-01-31T20:37:22ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#822020-01-31T20:32:43Z2020-01-31T20:32:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Talonhawke wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">NielsenE wrote:</div><blockquote> Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range. </blockquote>That helps </blockquote><p>Yes, I can pull it out of basket with that... That said, it just moves from useless to kind of bad. Maybe it could crawl up to fair with a monk focusing just on generic unarmed options...
<p>And it still isn't clear on the damage bonus... It's a start, so I'll take it and hopefully we'll see more corrections/FAQ's/errata for it in the future.</p>Talonhawke wrote:NielsenE wrote: Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range.
That helps Yes, I can pull it out of basket with that... That said, it just moves from useless to kind of bad. Maybe it could crawl up to fair with a monk focusing just on generic unarmed options... And it still isn't clear on the damage bonus... It's a start, so I'll take it and hopefully we'll see more corrections/FAQ's/errata for it in the future.graystone2020-01-31T20:32:43ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Talonhawkehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#812020-01-31T20:15:43Z2020-01-31T20:15:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">NielsenE wrote:</div><blockquote> Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range. </blockquote><p>That helpsNielsenE wrote:Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range.
That helpsTalonhawke2020-01-31T20:15:43ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...NielsenEhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#802020-01-31T22:18:20Z2020-01-31T20:08:25Z<p>Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range.</p>Correction posted in that thread, that it will be a 10' range increment, not a flat 10' range.NielsenE2020-01-31T20:08:25ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Ezekieruhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#792020-01-31T17:57:25Z2020-01-31T17:57:25Z<p>Yeah, I feel they need to up the damage and give us at least 20' instead of 10'. If they did that, I could see using Seedpods often enough.</p>Yeah, I feel they need to up the damage and give us at least 20' instead of 10'. If they did that, I could see using Seedpods often enough.Ezekieru2020-01-31T17:57:25ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Xenocrathttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#782020-01-31T17:04:22Z2020-01-31T17:04:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I hope they release ancestry feats to build off of Leshy Seedpod in the future. Otherwise it totally breaks immersion for me to be forced to play the little broken-horned Kimarhi Ronso all the time.</p>
<p>But I would buy a feat that boosted the range from 10 feet to 30 foot increments. Then my immersion can just assume my monster fleshy brothers all had that feat. </blockquote><p>They might give you 30', but not increments.Ravingdork wrote:I hope they release ancestry feats to build off of Leshy Seedpod in the future. Otherwise it totally breaks immersion for me to be forced to play the little broken-horned Kimarhi Ronso all the time.
But I would buy a feat that boosted the range from 10 feet to 30 foot increments. Then my immersion can just assume my monster fleshy brothers all had that feat.
They might give you 30', but not increments.Xenocrat2020-01-31T17:04:22ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#772020-01-31T17:04:57Z2020-01-31T17:00:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Michael Sayre wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Uchuujin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Well, <a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh3j" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">the new blog post</a> just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.</p>
<p>"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."</p>
<p>Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.</p>
<p></blockquote>You literally can't nerf an ability that never worked to begin with. And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was supposed to work and extended that answer to our blog since it's a nonfunctional ability without an answer. Any further updates or changes to their errata will continue be reflected in our rulings accordingly. </blockquote><p>Oh... That makes it even worse if it's a general answer vs a PFS one... •tosses feat into basket• I can cross that out out my book. :(Michael Sayre wrote:Uchuujin wrote:Well, the new blog post just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.
"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."
Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.
You literally can't nerf an ability that never worked to begin with. And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was...graystone2020-01-31T17:00:19ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Michael Sayre (Design Manager)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#762020-02-19T06:24:20Z2020-01-31T16:43:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Uchuujin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Well, <a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh3j" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">the new blog post</a> just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.</p>
<p>"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."</p>
<p>Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.</p>
<p></blockquote><p>You literally can't nerf an ability that never worked to begin with. And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was supposed to work and extended that answer to our blog since it's a nonfunctional ability without an answer. Any further updates or changes to their errata will continue be reflected in our rulings accordingly.Uchuujin wrote:Well, the new blog post just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.
"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."
Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.
You literally can't nerf an ability that never worked to begin with. And to be clear, this wasn't the "organized play" answer; we asked the design team and Lost Omens team how the ability was supposed to work...Michael Sayre (Design Manager)2020-01-31T16:43:28ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#752020-01-31T18:28:41Z2020-01-31T15:52:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Uchuujin wrote:</div><blockquote>Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.</blockquote><p>That went WAY past nerf and went to 'no one would EVER take the feat'. That isn't a ranged attack, it's a melee reach attack with less damage than your punch that provokes an AoO: it's literally the worse possible attack you can make. You're better off throwing a rock off the ground: that at least has a range increment.Uchuujin wrote:Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.
That went WAY past nerf and went to 'no one would EVER take the feat'. That isn't a ranged attack, it's a melee reach attack with less damage than your punch that provokes an AoO: it's literally the worse possible attack you can make. You're better off throwing a rock off the ground: that at least has a range increment.graystone2020-01-31T15:52:27ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#742020-01-31T15:44:24Z2020-01-31T15:34:09Z<p>I hope they release ancestry feats to build off of Leshy Seedpod in the future. Otherwise it totally breaks immersion for me to be forced to play the little broken-horned Kimarhi Ronso all the time.</p>
<p>But I would buy a feat that boosted the range from 10 feet to 30 foot increments. Then my immersion can just assume my monster fleshy brothers all had that feat.</p>I hope they release ancestry feats to build off of Leshy Seedpod in the future. Otherwise it totally breaks immersion for me to be forced to play the little broken-horned Kimarhi Ronso all the time.
But I would buy a feat that boosted the range from 10 feet to 30 foot increments. Then my immersion can just assume my monster fleshy brothers all had that feat.Ravingdork2020-01-31T15:34:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Uchuujinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#732020-01-31T18:42:32Z2020-01-31T13:09:50Z<p>Well, <a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh3j" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">the new blog post</a> just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.</p>
<p>"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."</p>
<p>Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.</p>Well, the new blog post just gave the organized play answer to this question, or it's range at least.
"The seedpod ranged unarmed attack granted by the Seedpod feat (page 54) has a range (not a range increment) of 10 feet."
Hard nerf to this ability, but there it is.Uchuujin2020-01-31T13:09:50ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Aswaarghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#722020-01-13T15:30:27Z2020-01-13T15:30:27Z<p>Aside from rules/potential for them being too much powerful, and taking into account what is explained in the feat. How do you imagine a seedpod would work? What are the stats that best represent them?</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>For me is not propulsive nor thrown because I imagine it as the size of a stone (sling) but more light and with flimsy shell, so it doesn´t have the weight nor the cutting edges needed to "transform" the strenght into damage.</p>
<p>If they say in the future that they are as heavy and/or with a strong shell, then I could imagine it with a propulsive trait.</p>Aside from rules/potential for them being too much powerful, and taking into account what is explained in the feat. How do you imagine a seedpod would work? What are the stats that best represent them?
[Spoiler omitted]
For me is not propulsive nor thrown because I imagine it as the size of a stone (sling) but more light and with flimsy shell, so it doesn´t have the weight nor the cutting edges needed to "transform" the strenght into damage.
If they say in the future that they are as heavy...Aswaarg2020-01-13T15:30:27ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...graystonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#712020-01-12T19:53:07Z2020-01-12T19:50:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">RicoTheBold wrote:</div><blockquote>- The damage section only includes how to calculate weapon damage, not unarmed.</blockquote><p>No, the section specifically states unarmed or weapon damage in the melee section only. As such, it most certainly DOES include how unarmed damage is calculated: "Melee damage roll = damage die of weapon or <b>unarmed</b> attack + Strength modifier + bonuses + penalties" is FROM the damage section. Note unarmed.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">RicoTheBold wrote:</div><blockquote>- The unarmed part I quoted says to calculate like attack and damage in the same way you would with a weapon.</blockquote><p>But then goes 100% out of it's way to exclude the possibility of ranged unarmed damage dice: hence, you either figure it out as a generic ranged attack or generic melee unarmed attack and IMO unarmed is more specific that ranged. Figuring it out as a weapon doesn't create a weapon damage die that doesn't exist.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">RicoTheBold wrote:</div><blockquote>- Calculating an unarmed attack/damage "in the same way you would with a weapon" means reading the melee or ranged weapon damage calculation rules, and then...just doing that, even though it's not a weapon. And since it's not thrown or propulsive, not applying Str to damage.</blockquote><p>As I pointed out, the damage section goes out of it's way to INCLUDE unarmed damage dice in only one place: the melee section. AS such, you can't override it with the "in the same way you would with a weapon" or the addition of unarmed in the damage calculation for melee are worthless, superfluous and a waste of paper/ink the section could just 100% say weapon if it doesn't matter as there is no reason to add it if it's not meant to mean anything.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">RicoTheBold wrote:</div><blockquote>Like...I just don't see why it matters that the damage section doesn't talk about unarmed when the unarmed section says to calculate it like a weapon, so the weapon damage calculation rules are therefore totally applicable. It's not a matter of trusting one section over the other, because the unarmed section is specifically <i>referring you to</i> the other.</blockquote><p>Like... I don't see why it matters that one section tells you something in general [use the same kind of generic math] while another specifically tells you what to add [damage section]. Again, if it didn't matter, the damage section wouldn't mention unarmed damage at all if you figure everything out the same without any consideration for it being different: why waste the space?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">RicoTheBold wrote:</div><blockquote>I think maybe you're getting hung up on the other part of the unarmed rules section</blockquote><p>IMO, that's what you're doing: focusing on the general and ignoring the specific. Using the same general formula doesn't override the need for actual unarmed dice in the formula that the ranged damage formula lacks: you can't do the math without a base die and the addition of specific unarmed dice in the melee section means that it matters that it's there [or NOT there].RicoTheBold wrote:- The damage section only includes how to calculate weapon damage, not unarmed.
No, the section specifically states unarmed or weapon damage in the melee section only. As such, it most certainly DOES include how unarmed damage is calculated: "Melee damage roll = damage die of weapon or unarmed attack + Strength modifier + bonuses + penalties" is FROM the damage section. Note unarmed. RicoTheBold wrote:- The unarmed part I quoted says to calculate like attack and damage in...graystone2020-01-12T19:50:43ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Gisherhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#692020-01-12T12:21:53Z2020-01-12T02:37:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Squiggit wrote:</div><blockquote> A feat being an okayish choice for a specific class maybe depending on your build is a pretty far cry from the overpowered abomination Zapp is acting like it is, though. </blockquote><p>Zapp was specifically focusing on Monks and was considering the case that the range was 30' and that it had the 'thrown' tag added. In that case, I would have to agree that it would be really tempting for most monks.
<p>For one feat, you would get a 30' range thrown weapon attack that...
<br />
-can't be disarmed
<br />
-has an inexhaustible supply of 'ammo' with 0 bulk
<br />
-adds your full Str modifier to damage
<br />
-doesn't require the 'returning' rune
<br />
-can take advantage of many of your melee class abilities
<br />
-is enhanced by your Handwraps of Mighty Blows</p>
<p>Unless I was going to keep Dex very low with a Mountain Stance build or Champion multiclass, I'd find Seed Pods really hard to resist.</p>Squiggit wrote:A feat being an okayish choice for a specific class maybe depending on your build is a pretty far cry from the overpowered abomination Zapp is acting like it is, though.
Zapp was specifically focusing on Monks and was considering the case that the range was 30' and that it had the 'thrown' tag added. In that case, I would have to agree that it would be really tempting for most monks. For one feat, you would get a 30' range thrown weapon attack that...
-can't be disarmed
-has...Gisher2020-01-12T02:37:35ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Gisherhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#682020-02-03T11:50:31Z2020-01-11T23:43:00Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">graystone wrote:</div><blockquote>...so you could 'flurry' with them, something you can't do as a normal mink for some reason...</blockquote><p>I think that's because <a href=" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mink#/media/File%3AAmerican_Mink.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">their short front legs and cute but tiny paws</a> make it difficult to throw things. ;)graystone wrote:...so you could 'flurry' with them, something you can't do as a normal mink for some reason...
I think that's because their short front legs and cute but tiny paws make it difficult to throw things. ;)Gisher2020-01-11T23:43:00ZRe: Forums: Advice: I love the idea of Leshy Seedpods, but...Squiggithttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vfe&page=2?I-love-the-idea-of-Leshy-Seedpods-but#672020-01-11T22:39:51Z2020-01-11T22:39:51Z<p>A feat being an okayish choice for a specific class maybe depending on your build is a pretty far cry from the overpowered abomination Zapp is acting like it is, though.</p>A feat being an okayish choice for a specific class maybe depending on your build is a pretty far cry from the overpowered abomination Zapp is acting like it is, though.Squiggit2020-01-11T22:39:51Z