What mounts have the best attribute for the purposes of Smiting?


Advice


There are a variety of mechanisms for conferring the Celestial template on animal companions, and perhaps few more non-template ways of conferring the ability to Smite -- but none of the medium-sized or larger mounts have much (if any) better than 10 charisma, and most of them are well below that (such as the horse, starting at 4), and so wouldn't gain a bonus to attack while Smiting.

--Aside from advancing its Cha and buying it a headband (and the extra slot to accommodate it), what options are there? (And what are the best options if you're stuck with RAW-listed cavalier mount choices?)


The beast speaker feat and undersized mount would work for a small rider. The sunbird starts at 15 Cha.

Certain spellcasters can cast eagle's splendour on their mounts if they want. A nature oracle could get a lot of mileage out of that spell.

I suspect RAW cavalier-list chararacters want the monstrous mount feat and one of those ~10 Cha options. The precocious companion archetype for animal companions could work with a worg.


avr wrote:

The beast speaker feat and undersized mount would work for a small rider. The sunbird starts at 15 Cha.

Certain spellcasters can cast eagle's splendour on their mounts if they want. A nature oracle could get a lot of mileage out of that spell.

I suspect RAW cavalier-list chararacters want the monstrous mount feat and one of those ~10 Cha options. The precocious companion archetype for animal companions could work with a worg.

I cannot highlight how bad Undersized Mount is.

It's just a -5 penalty to Ride checks, you get a LOT more bang for your buck for Skill Focus (Ride).

I seriously don't see the point to it.


From Cavalier options, a Precocious Companion Axe Beak is probably the best out there – 10 initial CHA, +4 from Precocious for a total of 14 CHA.

If you can toss in Beast Speaker, a Behir is probably the best option, having 12 CHA, 16 for a Precocious Behir.

Sun Falcons are not very good – being Small, they are impossible to ride unless you are Small and invest heavily on their carrying capacity.


Secret Wizard wrote:
From Cavalier options, a Precocious Companion Axe Beak is probably the best out there – 10 initial CHA, +4 from Precocious for a total of 14 CHA.

...but since you're losing out on the +8 to Strength you're behind on your attack bonus and damage compared to a normal axe beak, even while smiting.


Avr wrote:
From Cavalier options, a Precocious Companion Axe Beak is probably the best out there.

Aside from the birds and dinos not being RAW Cav choices (stipulated: I didn't explicitly confine the topic to that), Precocious forfeits Evasion (meaning the enemy gets to blotto my critter 24/7 with AoE so I can Smite with it once. <insert jerk-it gif> Grrr.... Paizo.... You and your fr#%&n nerf archetypes. >:-(

Secret Wizard wrote:
I cannot highlight how bad Undersized Mount is. It's just a -5 penalty to Ride checks...

Additionally, you're usually forfeiting the +1 elevation bonus you'd get from fighting atop a mount that is larger than the opponent.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Any way to get a critter to Smite with an attribute other than Charisma?


If you can’t find a legal mount option with a high charisma another approach to consider is selecting a mount with multiple attacks to increase the likelihood of hitting.


Slim Jim wrote:
Any way to get a critter to Smite with an attribute other than Charisma?

A few ways to do it with class levels (Like Tortured Crusader), but none for creatures without class levels.


Mr. Hebeme wrote:
If you can’t find a legal mount option with a high charisma another approach to consider is selecting a mount with multiple attacks to increase the likelihood of hitting.

The reason for desiring a higher attack-bonus while smiting is that mounts tend to fall behind the attack-bonus curve when leveling. Animals with multiple attack forms tend to fare the worst, because none of their attacks are that great to begin with, as opposed to those generally regarded as the "best" (which have a single primary attack suitable for 1.5x strength and PA bonuses).

A heavy horse, with its three attacks, is arguably the best mount at 1st level versus single-hitdice AC14 mooks. It is most certainly not by 7th, no matter how much you buff it. (I mean, geez, a T-Rex gets double-damage, Grab, Swallow Whole if your GM lets you get away with it, and has a Cha score of 10 for the Smite-inclined. An Arsinoitherium, while extra ornery with a Cha of only 3, gets Powerful Charge, Trample, and has a 2d8 base Gore -- and you can stack both Tusk Blades and an AoMF into its gear for some truly sickly-sweet bonuses.)


horse faster


It's easier to make a slow animal fast than it is to make sucky attacks better, or give them an ability they don't possess at all. (Caveat: horses are easy to make really fast because they can wear horseshoes without problems -- but top speed generally isn't as useful as you'd assume unless your focus is building a Spirited/Wheeling Charge build. For most mounted PCs, anything appreciably quicker than being 15' full-plate infantry is good enough.)


A Ringtail Deer has a 13 Cha. Starts small, medium at 4th level. So a small cavalier could use it as a mount eventually. not hard to argue for it since Reindeer and Stag are on their list.


Slim Jim wrote:
Avr wrote:
From Cavalier options, a Precocious Companion Axe Beak is probably the best out there.
Aside from the birds and dinos not being RAW Cav choices (stipulated: I didn't explicitly confine the topic to that), Precocious forfeits Evasion (meaning the enemy gets to blotto my critter 24/7 with AoE so I can Smite with it once. <insert jerk-it gif> Grrr.... Paizo.... You and your fr#%&n nerf archetypes. >:-(

Wasn't actually me, see Secret Wizard for the quote source. I did suggest the monstrous mount feat options. Monstrous mount is legal if you have the mount class feature, beast speaker isn't BTW.

If you're riding it then you're in touch range to cast defensive spells if you are, say, a nature oracle. There are ways to keep a mount alive without evasion.


One other thought, courtly hunters get a different and generally worse set of animal aspects, but for what you're doing the eagle aspect (Eagle: The creature gains a +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma. This bonus increases to +4 at 8th level and +6 at 15th level.) could be useful.

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