Post your best gish


Advice

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Malk_Content wrote:
Oh and there is a difference between surprise and what you can hunt. After hearing the roar of a dragon in it lair youncan hunt it, without any clue as to when the thing will spring its attack on you.

Yes, in general, you can hunt prey on the big boss as there are often signs of its presence. It's one creature inside the dungeon. An important one, I agree.

Anyway, all of that is subject to the DM. If your DM allows you, then you can, otherwise you can't. So, with the proper DM, it may be interesting, but I won't make DM assumptions on these boards.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I doesn't even have to be a big boss. I try to make an effort to describe sounds whenever possible. Not just because of having a ranger (I actually didn't until a lvl 2 MC) but because it makes the world better. To not do so because we are scared that one character saving 1 action on the first round of combat will make the combat non-challenging is highly restricting.

But I think we will always disagree on this and it isn't the right thread for it. Regardless I think you can probably agree that Hunted Shot is not functionally a two action ability, outside of the fist turn where we have different caveats.


If your party knows how to focus fire, you'll have to Hunt Prey nearly every round, unless you voluntarily choose to target a non-focused enemy. So, it's not technically a 2-action action. But the example of the Wizard using Hunted Shot as third action is clearly ridiculous, Strike would be at least equivalent overall.


Malk_Content wrote:
Regardless I think you can probably agree that Hunted Shot is not functionally a two action ability, outside of the fist turn where we have different caveats.

It's not, but I think you can probably agree too that having your baseline damage assumption require every fight to be against a single enemy that the Ranger can Hunt in advance is a little bit contrived and skewed.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
If your party knows how to focus fire, you'll have to Hunt Prey nearly every round, unless you voluntarily choose to target a non-focused enemy. So, it's not technically a 2-action action. But the example of the Wizard using Hunted Shot as third action is clearly ridiculous, Strike would be at least equivalent overall.

Eh, most groups I've run and played in don't "focus fire" in most combats. In some where there is clearly a bigger/main threat sure, but more often they're spread out enough that they end up splitting damage.


currently messing with a ranger gish as well.

shurikens

precision edge

bespell weapon

true strike

mirror image

4th level slot and up invisibility

thats pretty much it as far as spell diversity, at 8 you get at best 2 slots per level save for your two highest slots. one for true strike one for invisibility.

hunted shot if you can proc it before combat thats great, and its also true that it costs an action every time you are on a new target. notable drawbacks, but you also have the added safety of range, meaning any melee based opponent will have to spend at least 1 action to enter combat with you.

general turns would be.

1-hunt prey-true strike-hunted shot, at 8 you have procced bespell weapon on both strikes of hunted shot. before magic items i think that is 1d4+4+1d8+1d6/1d4+4+1d6. You can do this with a divination staff in hand and just throw and grab your shuriken with one hand.

2-invisibility/mirror image-hunted shot-no advantage with true strike on first attack but you still proc bespell weapon and are now harder to deal with

i like this more then true strike power attack due to action economy flexibility. you wont crit as hard but your minimum will be higher, maximum will be close, and you will be in a safer position with better action economy all around. seems like a more practical take. true strike is there to simply provide an economical proc to bespell weapon and a minor to hit/crit increase on your first, and strongest attack.

my idea anyways.


Vlorax wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
If your party knows how to focus fire, you'll have to Hunt Prey nearly every round, unless you voluntarily choose to target a non-focused enemy. So, it's not technically a 2-action action. But the example of the Wizard using Hunted Shot as third action is clearly ridiculous, Strike would be at least equivalent overall.
Eh, most groups I've run and played in don't "focus fire" in most combats. In some where there is clearly a bigger/main threat sure, but more often they're spread out enough that they end up splitting damage.

Still, I'm pretty sure most monsters go down in a round or 2 once they start taking damage (area of effects damage put aside). It's hard to have all characters targetting the very same enemy, but most of the time, there are like 2 enemies taking all the hits. Keeping Hunt Prey for more than 2 rounds is the exception, it means boss fight, or it means that you are voluntarily damaging an unscratched target, so your damage, despite being optimized in numbers, is very badly optimized in terms of efficiency.


Well an actual Ranger archer attacking their Hunted Prey while everyone else focuses on other targets can work pretty well, largely due to critical specialization. Nailing an enemy to the ground is a great way to keep them from attacking your friends. If you have a flaming rune you can light them up with persistent damage too, and you want to give that time to tick down.

That is a lot less true of a wizard who multiclasses though.


During the playtest I made a Witcher as my main DD PC, I've always wanted to rebuild him in full edition, but I don't exactly feel like spending an hour porting a lvl 17 PC just for show, since I'd like to play him at SOME point. But his basic build was

    Keen Hearing Elf (might go Ancient for ze free multi, TBD)
  • His main class is Ranger, with the Precision Edge, later multi into Wizard, and then Alchemist
  • He had two swords, both were bastard swords at the time, although on his remake I'd probs use katanas for the Deadly trait since he only wants one super solid hit, not a bunch of meh ones. Later one one was Cold Iron, and the other was Adamantium, and he carried about a gallon of silversheen on him, with one having Unholy/Wounding/Void rune, and the other Ghost Touch/Holy/Disruptive
  • His cantrips were the 4 basic elemental ones for weaknesses, with spells being mostly AoE and utility (ray of exhaustion, flaming hands, haste/slow, that family of stuff)
  • Poisons, all of the poisons! And a few bombs for status effects, thunderstone and tanglefoot mostly
  • His ranger feats were all about monster hunting/identifying and tracking/sneaking, so that he'd always get the drop on his prey
He was really fun during part 4, he did the best in that act because of his exploration tactics and style of hunting, and I'd love to make a full conversion one of these days, but again, it'd most likely take an hour+ because of how high level he became. Hell, I might just make him at 20 and scale him down should he see play in a campaign.


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I've been playing with a fun concept involving a Barbarian Illusionist.
A lot of fun illusion spells are material and somatic only and can therefore be cast while raging. And if you multiclass into sorcerer you don't have to have a hand free to cast any of these spells.

Jump
Invisibility
Silence
Invisibility Sphere
Hypnotic Pattern
Drop Dead
Hallucination
Vibrant Pattern
Scintillating Pattern
Disappearance

And nearly all of these spells have effects that occur regardless of spell DC. As a Base Barbarian multiclassing into Sorc you don't have a lot of spell slots but this list can provide enough utility without having to either pick up moment of clarity or not be a barbarian


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Abyssiensis wrote:

I've been playing with a fun concept involving a Barbarian Illusionist.

A lot of fun illusion spells are material and somatic only and can therefore be cast while raging. And if you multiclass into sorcerer you don't have to have a hand free to cast any of these spells.

Jump
Invisibility
Silence
Invisibility Sphere
Hypnotic Pattern
Drop Dead
Hallucination
Vibrant Pattern
Scintillating Pattern
Disappearance

And nearly all of these spells have effects that occur regardless of spell DC. As a Base Barbarian multiclassing into Sorc you don't have a lot of spell slots but this list can provide enough utility without having to either pick up moment of clarity or not be a barbarian

Just a side note: You can't cast spells while raging (unless you use Moment of Clarity). It has nothing to do with components, it has to do with Concentration trait (that you can't use while raging).


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SuperBidi wrote:
Abyssiensis wrote:

I've been playing with a fun concept involving a Barbarian Illusionist.

A lot of fun illusion spells are material and somatic only and can therefore be cast while raging. And if you multiclass into sorcerer you don't have to have a hand free to cast any of these spells.

Jump
Invisibility
Silence
Invisibility Sphere
Hypnotic Pattern
Drop Dead
Hallucination
Vibrant Pattern
Scintillating Pattern
Disappearance

And nearly all of these spells have effects that occur regardless of spell DC. As a Base Barbarian multiclassing into Sorc you don't have a lot of spell slots but this list can provide enough utility without having to either pick up moment of clarity or not be a barbarian

Just a side note: You can't cast spells while raging (unless you use Moment of Clarity). It has nothing to do with components, it has to do with Concentration trait (that you can't use while raging).
Cast a Spell only has the Concentrate trait if it has verbal components.
Cast A Spell wrote:

Spell Components Each spell lists the spell components required to cast it after the action icons or text, such as “[three-actions] material, somatic, verbal." The spell components, described in detail below, add traits and requirements to the Cast a Spell activity. If you can’t provide the components, you fail to Cast the Spell.

Material (manipulate)
Somatic (manipulate)
Verbal (concentrate)
Focus (manipulate)


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Damn, you're right. I didn't realized that.
Casting a spell without concentrating is weird to me. But it looks like it's associated mostly to illusions.


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So I've been playing with an idea since the Lost Omens players guide with the Ancient Elf making a Sorc/Ranger. The goal is to fire off a pair of arrows(Hunted shot)followed by an electric arc for 3 decent attacks at range. Using the attribute flaws my 1st lvl stats come out like this:

Str:10
Dex:18
Con:10
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:18

Dragon blooded
Lost and Alone Background (for Intimidating glair)
Ancient elf for Ranger Dedication
Elvin Weapon Familiarity (For Comp Short bow progression)

So looking at starting with a shortbow eventually comp shortbow.
Normal rounds of combat 1-3rd lvl would be
1st: Hunt Prey Shoot/Shoot
2nd+: Shoot/Electric Arc or Produce flame or Acid splash (element/opp dependent)
Magic Weapon/Truestrike/Magic missle as needed with light and shield as other cantrips.
If the opp comes into CC I have my finesse Dragon claws or an Elven Curveblade.
At 4th lvl Ièd get Basic Hunters Trick for Hunted shot.
I also have a good chance to demorilise many opps if needed with high intimidation skill and Intimidating glair
Seems solid to me at least at low lvls

Drawbacks seem obvious low HP but a speed of 30 is a decent way to avoid CC most of the time.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Timeshadow wrote:

So I've been playing with an idea since the Lost Omens players guide with the Ancient Elf making a Sorc/Ranger. The goal is to fire off a pair of arrows(Hunted shot)followed by an electric arc for 3 decent attacks at range. Using the attribute flaws my 1st lvl stats come out like this:

Str:10
Dex:18
Con:10
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:18

Dragon blooded
Lost and Alone Background (for Intimidating glair)
Ancient elf for Ranger Dedication
Elvin Weapon Familiarity (For Comp Short bow progression)

So looking at starting with a shortbow eventually comp shortbow.
Normal rounds of combat 1-3rd lvl would be
1st: Hunt Prey Shoot/Shoot
2nd+: Shoot/Electric Arc or Produce flame or Acid splash (element/opp dependent)
Magic Weapon/Truestrike/Magic missle as needed with light and shield as other cantrips.
If the opp comes into CC I have my finesse Dragon claws or an Elven Curveblade.
At 4th lvl Ièd get Basic Hunters Trick for Hunted shot.
I also have a good chance to demorilise many opps if needed with high intimidation skill and Intimidating glair
Seems solid to me at least at low lvls

Drawbacks seem obvious low HP but a speed of 30 is a decent way to avoid CC most of the time.

that stat spread is impossible. You can't start with two 18's


We already spoke of Hunted Shot in this topic, and it's not better than just using Strike if you use it only once per round, as you will need to reactivate Hunt Prey every 2 rounds on average.
And your character is not valid, you can't have 18 in Dexterity even with the voluntary flaw rules.

Dark Archive

Martialmasters wrote:

Title. Post your best Gish.

Got one? Post it.

I’ve got two, but I have a little difficulty choosing the best. I do know that you should start with the best class and race though: Elven Rogue.

I’ll start with the first and post the other later.

Rogue / Wizard
Initial stats: S: 10 D: 18 C: 12 I: 16 W: 12 C: 10
Heritage: Ancient Elf (Wizard)
Background: Artisan
Racket: Thief
Weapon: Elven Curve Blade (Spell Storing, Speed)
Skills: Stealth, Thievery, Crafting, Arcana, Guild Lore, Acrobatics, Athletics, Medicine, Occultism, Society, Deception, Undead Lore, Gods Lore, Wilderness Lore
Spells: True Strike (1st and 2nd), Fireball (3rd, 4th, 5th), Disintegrate and Vampiric Exanguination(6th), Chain Lightning (7th and 8th)
L1: Trap Finder (C), Elven Weapon Familiarity (A), Specialty Crafting: Bookmaking (B), Catfall (S)
L2: Unbalancing Blow (C), Quiet Allies (S)
L3: Magical Crafting (S), Nimble (G)
L4: Basic Wizard Spellcasting (C), Battle Medicine (S)
L5: Dubious Knowledge (S), Nimble Elf (S)
L6: Basic Arcana: Conceal Spell (C), Hefty Hauler (S)
L7: Swift Sneak (S), Incredible Initiative (S)
L8: Advanced Arcana: Bespell Weapon (C), Inventor (S)
L9: Kip Up (S), Forlorn (A)
L10: Precise Debilitations (C), Magical Shorthand (S)
L11: Quick Unlock (S), Ancestral Paragon: Elven Lore [Nature, Intimidation] (G)
L12: Expert Wizard Spellcasting (C)
L13: Unwavering Mein (A)
L14: Instant Opening (C)
L15: Legendary Sneak (S), Canny Acumen: Fortitude (G)
L16: Arcane Breadth (C), Craft Anything (S)
L17: Unified Theory (S), Ancestral Longevity (A)
L18: Master Wizard Spellcasting (C), Legendary Thief (S)
L19: Legendary Medic (S), Incredible Investiture (S)
L20: Advanced Arcana: Scroll Savant (C), Cloud Jump (S)

The rogue/wizard aims to shore up the weakness of multiple target damage with AOE spells, while using his weapon to deal as much damage as possible after casting a spell, putting disintegration into the weapon . True strike may begin to replace fireball up to 5th level slots depending on how often big groups come into play, and chain lighting may be switched out if crit saves occur too often.

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